UPDATE, 3:04PM: Bravo may have today taken over control of Shahs of Sunset but the Motion Picture Editors Guild isn’t going to let them pink slip the postproduction crew on the once Ryan Seacrest Productions run show without a fight – be it on the picket line or the courts. “The right to organize, including the right to strike, is enshrined in federal law,”” said IATSE Local 700 organizer Rob Callahan this afternoon. “It is an egregious violation of the law for any employer to discharge or otherwise retaliate against employees for exercising their right to organize. The Editors Guild and IATSE will aggressively defend the rights of our membership against all such violations.” The Editors Guild will have some serious defending to do, sources confirm that Bravo will definitely be taking the show non-union going forward.
PREVIOUS, 2:25 PM: After nearly two weeks on the picket line and no talks scheduled, the striking 
editors of Bravo’s Shahs of Sunset look to be off the job permanently today.”Bravo is assuming control of production of Season 4 of Shahs of Sunset from Ryan Seacrest Productions,” said the NBCU-owned cabler in a curt statement today. While RSP will still remain executive producers of the series, the editors seeking a union contract will likely have nothing to do with postproduction on the current season once and if it gets up and running, sources tell me.
Soon after the strike started, Bravo pulled the October 13 S4 debut date of Shahs. “The new airdate has yet to be determined,” said the cable network on September 11. No word yet on when Bravo will try to get the show back on track. Bravo’s statement today comes just minutes after producers Ryan Seacrest Productions sent out a statement of their own, that read:
“Bravo controls the rights to Shahs of Sunset, and as a result, makes all final decisions regarding production and budgetary matters. Ryan Seacrest Productions (RSP) has deferred to the network¹s decision for Bravo to assume all remaining production duties on Shahs of Sunset. RSP will be unable to continue working with the editors that were previously engaged on this production. We appreciate the passion, commitment and contributions these editors made to the fourth season of Shahs of Sunset, and we¹re extremely proud of show, and applaud all the great work that the cast, producers and crew have made to date. “
A day after sending RSP subsidiary Berne Productions Inc.a letter requesting talks, the 16-member 
postproduction crew of the reality show walked off the job on September 10 in search of a union contract with the Motion Picture Editors Guild . Like the Guild’s successful Survivor labor action of last month, the Shahs post crew members have primarily been seeking health and pension benefits. At the time RSP said they had “every intention of engaging in a discussion as soon as possible.”
RELATED: Bravo Advertisers Targeted In ‘Shahs Of Sunset’ Strike
The intention may have been there for RSP but there have been no talks with IATSE local 700 since the strike started. What has become clear, and today’s actions confirm even more, is that Bravo and NBCUniversal are making the decisions on how this strike will play out from the corporate side. With that in mind, late last week the union started taking a new approach by reaching out to ad agencies who have clients like Procter & Gamble, Microsoft, Coca-Cola, and Honda who advertise on Bravo. “We encourage you to advise your clients that we retain our right to communicate with our members, members of affiliated organizations, and the public at large about those brands sponsoring the conduct of entities with which we have a labor dispute,” said a letter from the Editors Guild that went out to big ad agencies. What their response to today’s move by Bravo and RSP will be has yet to be seen.
This is dispicable and I hope they find only inexperienced editor’s and staff to mess up an already ridiculous show.
Sounds like no harm done.
They’ll find plenty of experienced workers. With millions unemployed and desperate for any work, companies hold the upper hand. Unions will never, ever wield the clout they once did, again.
Just keep spreadin’ that fear, you scab.
It’s not fear union-lackey, it’s reality.
Ever hear of the Depression? There were plenty of fear mongers like you saying unions will never work–and yet, they did. You’re on the wrong side of history.
They will have no trouble finding experienced help very quickly. With millions of unemployed desperate for any job, unions will never, ever wield the power they once did.
Editors are actually in pretty high demand right now. The talent pool is already becoming more and more watered down with the rapid expansion of reality television and niche cable networks. Finding skilled talent may not be as easy as they think.
Unions started when millions of people were out of work and greedy employers thought they could get away with anything. You can push people too far.
This is a face saving ploy by Ryan Seacrest. So let’s call it what it is. He doesn’t want to be the bad guy for the network, so they are stepping in and setting an example before other housewife shows have their post crew try for the same basic benefits. I think it’s despicable of Ryan Seacrest and my admiration for the empire he has built has evaporated. As an Emmy voter I will never vote for him or Bravo shows that treat the human beings they employ like chattel while racking up billions in profit. I’m sure i’m not the only viewer to feel this way. While i haven’t watched this show, i did watch some shows on Bravo. They will no longer play in my house. I hope Andy Cohen reads this. You are not hurting for money Ryan and helping those that made this type of junk TV watchable is the least you could do… health benefits. How greedy of them to want to have some ability to see a doctor while working brutal hours for low pay…
Your idol Merv Griffin would be ashamed. He was a class act .
I must agree about Ryan Seacrest didn’t wanted to be the bad guy but let Bravo do the dirty work. I wish both side would go into a room to settle their problem.
Ryan Seacrest has nothing to do with this. I know you think it does, and you want it to, so you have someone (a face) to blame, but the reality of it is simply that RSP is the production company that is producing the show on behalf of Bravo. Bravo pays the bills for the show. The money comes from Bravo. RSP does not have the authority to spend Bravo’s money without Bravo first approving it. Which is why the article on the top of this page is titled as it is. Bravo controls the show and its financials after the approved budget is in question, which at this point, it is.
This a great. It’s about time that someone stood up to these bullies. Congrats Local 700 – you just put 16 people out of work. But no worries, your job placement program will get them hired real quick. NOT! Now post departments will think twice before walking off the job.
Executives squeezing every penny they can from a budget to maximize profit = capitalism. Workers demanding health benefits and a pension = greedy bullies. I’ll never understand this stance.
Or they can get get a job on the 10,000 other shows that won’t fire them.
Asshole.
Ah, class.
Whats your show? . We can put it other top of the list. Bitch
It appears it is you who is the bitch. #strikefail
Something smells fishy here. Who do you work for? Nothing says “standing up to bullys” like supporting a multimillion dollar conglomerate against 16 working editors. Something tells me they’ll have no problem finding another gig. Now finding editors willing to be scabs, good luck with that buddy!
Right. Because editors wanting the same benefits that scripted editors get — and that all the network execs get — is bullying.
It’s bullying when you pull this stunt weeks out from air vs. at the start of the season. It’s a bully tactic. Don’t pretend that it isn’t. You’re comparing scripted budgets to reality budgets. They aren’t in the same stratosphere.
Where do you get your facts? Fox News? If you take the cost of actors and writers out of a scripted budget it would be the same (or less) than a cable reality budget… Both sides should get benefits.
Not true. Scripted series are much higher.
Tell It – no it isn’t, not for below the line crew.
No, they’re not. In fact, many scripted shows have budgets smaller than big reality shows, even with the cost of actors and writers.
It is true. Scripted series are bound by other union contracts that require addition unnecessary positions. And since there are writing, talent, and much larger art departments, there is more money to amortize to cover additional costs. There is no comparison. Ask any EIC. Stick to editing.
Have you worked in Reality? The start of the season is *always* weeks out from the air date. Reality makes money for the networks hand over fist. They can afford to pay health benefits for the people who make that money possible.
That is false. Prep and shoot will depend on the order but typically that will be 10-13 weeks prior to air. If you add casting to the mix that could be another 5-10. So there is plenty of time to achieve this prior to crunch time. But Local 700 tired to make a leverage move and flip the show a couple weeks prior to air.
Ridiculous. Every production company and network knows post wants these things. They have been politely asked for many times. No corporation will ever give something to an employee without leverage. Shit, if the government (and unions) didn’t protect employees, they’d abolish the minimum wage and use child labor… Oh wait they already do that to make anything that doesn’t require talent. You’re not being a bully when you use leverage, you’re being smart. Using your thinking a full-time employee could never ask for a raise because it would be bullying the poor innocent company.
When else should they do it? When the stakes aren’t high? How would that put pressure on the other side? It wouldn’t.
.
The point of this, or any, strike, is to show management/ownership how valuable the strikers are, and why their demands should be met (or negotiated).
RSP was invited to discuss a contract by the union, and they refused to meet. Only afterwards did the editors walk.
You lot are living in cloud cuckoo-land. Where do think this money comes from to fund productions? It comes from ad sales and cable fees and each show’s ratings generate $ per tenth of a rating point in A18-49. The higher the budget, the higher the ratings a show has to get to stay in production. Reality editors get paid $3500-4500/week typically, i.e. more than scripted, and they refuse to be paid IA scale. As an employer, I would make all my shows IA (and happily pay for benefits they may never see because of union pension fund corruption) if they accepted scale or slightly over-scale, BUT these editors, and the unreasonable union are driving up production costs whilst wanting their cake and eating it too.
Stupid. Reality editors write the show, that’s why they make more than scripted editors. If you owned a production company (and I’m certain you don’t) you wouldn’t be griping about paying good reality editor 5k a week… You’d be thankful they’re available for your show, because you would know that there’re wouldn’t be a show without them. But you’re smarter than anyone who works in post, so you should stick to your IA scale plan and see how far it gets you.
As an editor in LA/NYC I would like to say that you’re wrong, I won’t think twice…
I won’t think twice when an EP asks me to stay 17hrs straight WITHOUT over time pay when I am only contracted for 10hrs per day. I won’t think twice when producers ask me to stay on the weekend without any pay, because you know, notes are more important than your family. I won’t think twice when I am asked to work a holiday. I won’t think twice when I have to go to a doctors appointment and most of my weeks pay goes to pay for a basic procedure because I don’t have health insurance.
I won’t think twice before walking off the job to strike companies that abuse their employees, and trust me, I’m not the only one that feels this way.
Lets see if these shows can make air without professional Editors and Assistant Editors at the helm. I’m sure one of the execs at Universal has a nephew that knows how to use iMovie….he can probably lock these shows.
We are more than just button pushers. We make directors, producers, EPs, and Networks look like they know what they’re doing when in fact they don’t. You know the term ‘Fix it in Post’ really means ‘Fuck it, let the guys/gals who know their shit figure this out’. This action by Bravo/NBC will not go over well with the editing community, Union or Non-Union.
Isn’t the issue in this case based on Health Benefits and not working conditions? I agree, why would anyone work hours and not be paid for them.
Sooo…. Yer saying you’ve never worked on a single TV show, film or commercial, eh? Because the answer to “why would anyone” would clear up that idiot’s remark above about bullying… If you don’t work those free hours, you just won’t get hired. Who’s the bully? That employer or the union that forces them to pay you overtime for those hours? This is most certainly about working conditions.
Bad working conditions isn’t always about being tortured and put in physically dangerous positions… You try working for an entire year with 70 hour weeks and only being paid for 40 or 50. See how you view “working conditions” then.
The point being you don’t need to unionize to be paid for hours worked. If you’re stupid enough to do so then that’s on you. I guess Local 700 preys on the weak.
It’s the producers who develop and shoot the show. Editors come in at the end and “polish a turd” for 8 weeks then either go on to a new project or roll on to another episode. You have a job because somewhere a producer worked weekends, holidays, missed family events, etc – all without additional pay to sell a show and ultimately give you a job. So stop taking so much credit. You’re a blip on the life cycle of a show.
That’s not even remotely true. The development department pitches shows and hires a production team to go out and make it for them. Most producers in the field are exactly as you described editors: hired guns that work a few weeks and then move on to the next thing. And usually they dump the footage in the editor’s lap to turn it into a TV show. We’re co-dependent. Neither would have a job without the other. And, yes, they are taken advantage of. This isn’t a pissing contest. Producers deserve to be treated well also. And, in case you haven’t noticed, it’s been producers and the WGA who have really been leading the charge to organize. And I say, good for them. As for the blip on the life cycle of a show, It takes a lot longer to cut a show than it does to shoot it. Spend some time in an edit room. It’ll make you a better shooter/producer.
It takes much more time and sacrifice to create the turd than the 8 weeks of polishing the turd. I never met an editor who was stressed out outside of work. Not once in 25 years in this business. It’s a cushy gig. Own it.
Telling It Like It Is: Honestly, if you really think it takes longer to shoot something than it does to edit it, I really have to question your “experience”. Just think about it. Logistically it doesn’t even make sense. I said nothing about it being stressful, don’t refute strawman arguments I never made. I’m simply addressing the claim that editors don’t spend many months on a particular project. We live with it for much longer than the production crew. I like my gig, it’s a comfortable one. I’ll own that, no problem. Not sure what that has to do with health and pension plans though. If you like your job, you can’t be compensated for it?
That same Producer will profit exponentially more if the show is a success! Which he should since it was his idea and he did all that spec work but that does not entitle them to not compensate me for my time and talent!
As for the editors role and importance,
have you ever worked on a reality show or even know someone who has? Reality shows really are made in Post!
I’ve worked weekends. I charged them for it. I’ve stayed late. I charged them for it. Not invalidating your concerns but as a freelancer – you have to freedom to set your rates and renegotiate.
That’s the point. Reality shows don’t pay OT if they are non-union. At least not that I’ve seen. There is no negotiation in most sectors of Hollywood these days.
I got a feeling that there will be more reality show will be using non-union worker to save money and make more money when the show is sold on the syndication market and various DVD format.
Of course non-union reality shows pay overtime. That’s California labor law. You don’t need a union for that. I’ve worked freelance at a lot of companies in this town for the past 8 years, not one of them would dare not pay OT, it’s not worth the cost of the labor claim to them, which can be penalties many multiples the unpaid wages (which all get paid directly to the employee, btw, not some 3rd party such as a union)
Joey, you’re not working in non-union reality if you’re getting overtime. It basically doesn’t exist. Some of the better companies make an effort to schedule post in such a way that overtime is minimized, but unpaid-overtime is standard. And I agree with above posts… Producers who work in the field are grossly abused–most tolerate it because they hope/dream that one day they will be an EP (which will give them a decent salary and allow them to abuse their underling producers–who used to be their piers.) hope they follow editor’s example and stand up for themselves.
I handle payroll for a company that does non-union reality shows and I can say we pay an editor for every hour OT that they work. In fact we have an editor working today for 8 hrs OT.
If you’re working late with no pay, if you’re working weekend for no pay, then thats on YOU. That just simply means that you have ZERO business sense and are allowing them to take advantage of you. When the producers do that, then thats when you say NO. It’s actually quite simple. You grow a pair and tell them NO, and go find another job elsewhere if thats how they want to run things. As far as your health insurance goes, go buy a policy! You’re making $3k-$6K a week! You can afford it! Stop blaming the whole world for your inability to properly transact business and provide for yourself. Take some responsibility.
It’s the networks that don’t want to unionize. And as long as there are spineless editors and producers who will work for low pay and no benefits, nothing will get accomplished.
They can take their show, but we’ll follow. They want to play hard ball, that’s fine. We can play too.
So much for Seacrest’s reassurance that RSP was open to discussions.
Now other post production workers on other shows will be even more scared to strike than they were before.
Why do people think it’s fair to work people for 18 hours a day with no extra pay when they make millions of dollars on the show?
Based on what I have seen, editors work on an hourly rate – so extra hours = more pay with CA time and a half or double time based on actual hours. Is it common for editors to work on a day rate?
Often production companies will not pay over time or time and a half for a sixth day. They do offer pizza when you stay late though.
That pizza have better the greatest pizza in the world.
It is amazing to learn what the production editor go through to get anything on the air. It will be interested to see what happened when the case come in front of the courtroom. Will the judge or the jury get the final views?
And there’s the rub. Legally you ARE supposed to be paid for extra hours. In reality TV however, that is usually not the case. To a company, every non-union reality company I’ve worked at cooks the books regarding hours worked and basically tells you what hours to write on your timecard, regardless of how many you actually worked. They don’t come in and say “Hey you better work late tonight” but they will saddle you with unrealistic deadlines and demands that basically force you to work 12-15 hour days and still get paid for only 8-10 hours per day. In addition there is NO sick-day pay (which is also illegal), NO 401K, no nothing, no security. Yeah yeah yeah, if you don’t like it, don’t take the job, but when EVERY company in the field you aspire to work in does this, and you’re trying to get your foot in the door, it’s kinda hard to just find another job. These companies need to stop breaking the law. I’m no fan of thuggish unions, but they seem to be needed to get these reality TV execs in line.
I don’t understand why this has to be done in Hollywood, why don’t they just ship this stuff overseas, I’m sure there are English speaking editors in other countries. Look at the quality of productions that is coming out of Korea, Japan, and Taiwan. Especially Korea.
Jeez, why not just ship ALL the rest of our jobs overseas and just let the country totally rot? I swear some people are longing for a Mad Max type world.
Ah, yes…the American way.
we should send gigs over seas…and abuse them…have them edit shows for 20 hours straight for almost no money…most people over seas are pretty dull minded and have no backbone anyway…they’re all used to being walked on..right..is that what you’re getting at….lol…
Yeah, I mean no cultural differences or anything there…
Why don’t we take your job and ship it overseas too? That sounds like a good idea, yeah?
You obviously don’t work in television or post production, do you? How can you edit when you don’t speak the language? How are the idiot producers going to give them notes in Korea?
Best comment here.
I will not edited another Bravo show and their ridiculous notes until these editors are rehired with union rules to protect them.
Anyone who edits for this show as a scab is hurting themselves.
You “will not edited”? Sounds like you never have.
Bravo, Dave!
And the unions wonder why all of the productions LEAVE Los Angeles and go elsewhere. This is EXACTLY why. IATSE is worthless. IATSE doesn’t give a crap about its members. All they are seeking from this unionization are the RESIDUALS from the show it will now receive moving forward upon successful unionization. Yes, they get a piece of the profit. It’s business people!!
Bravo sound like they only care about the money and getting the budget under the cost and more money to them. Non-union worker will do it.
@Fed up
You know nothing. The RESIDUALS that are paid to IATSE are paid on behalf of the workers. It goes into our retirement/pension plan. Which, by the way, is secure and fully funded. Retired members are benefiting from residuals being paid today. No one at IATSE gets their hands on the money. It’s part of our benefits package. The part that we don’t see until we retire. The IATSE retirement fund is in better shape than SAG, the Directors Guild, and The Producers Guild — primarily because of the fact that it’s not there to be spent.
How did these issues not come up when the editors were hired in the first place? If you don’t like an offer, just say so in the first place. If an employer is truly being unreasonable, they’ll get the message when their positions are remaining unfilled while their better-paying competitors are getting work done.
In contrast, taking a job and then trying to unilaterally change the terms halfway through or at a critical point kind of puts a stink of unfair play on what otherwise may have been perfectly reasonable points of view.
*Bingo. That’s why they come across a bit “thuggish”.
Because Bruce, it’s very typical in Reality that you are lied to from the beginning of the job. You are told that a lot of things that make the job seem reasonable – and then 1 week into the gig it turns out to be the opposite. I’ve had so many Exec Prod. promise me that the job will operate up to a certain standard and then when it doesn’t they say tough sh*t and shrug their shoulders.
Bruce, you make a valid point in a sea of head scratching ones. I think the reasoning is that editors are not hired as a group and don’t have leverage as an individual. If you don’t like the terms, you turn the job down and the company moves on to the next guy. But, if you stand together as a group, you’ve got a lot more leverage and a better chance of accomplishing the goal of getting benefits for freelance workers. It is a shame it has to happen like this. It’s too bad companies can’t just scratch the surface of their profit margin a bit to extend their workers the same benefits they undoubtedly enjoy.
That’s the whole point of collective bargaining. In one-on-one negotiations, the employer nearly always holds the power, and honest negotiations are essentially impossible between unequal partners. This is why the union exists, to give each worker a stronger bargaining position by combining their power into one.
Apparently you don’t work in television. At least not on non Union shows. Here’s what happens: When being offered the job, promises are made like “Work a Flat rate per day. Usually 8 – 10 hrs a day.” Then the shizzle hits the fan and there’s a panic and suddenly it’s 12,14, 18 hrs a day “cuz we got an airdate” and it’s gotta get done!! Suddenly you’re working for 20 to 60% less than agreed.
Even if OT is offered (occasionally) after 10hrs, even if it’s on paper, the excuse is usually “it wasn’t pre-approved” or “sorry, we just don’t have any money left in the budget”. And usually the producers somehow don’t see this coming until they’re right up against airdates. Try to quit at such a critical point and you’ll be black listed – branded a rotten apple – throughout the industry since it’s just one person who might stand up on their own. An entire crew stands up at the same time? It’s a rotten tree!!
So, who is “unilaterally changing the terms halfway thru” at the most critical times?
It is a matter of leverage; collective bargaining agreements need a group of people to press the case. If I go into an interview asking for health and pension benefits, it is much easier for the employer to pass on me and look for the guy willing to forsake them. The benefits will never happen.
We live in a country where for the most part health benefits are delivered through employers, asking at this point in the schedule is the only way to get the powers that be to sit down at the table, and revealed to be, as usual, a multi-billion dollar corporation. Take the health benefits from the people refusing to even negotiate with the editors and you would see a lot of squealing, too.
Productions start all the time during the year, and the industry depends on a fluid labor pool, constantly hiring the help as needed. Our availability is essential to keep the machine going, without that available labor, it would be impossible to produce anything. Essentially the congloms have off-loaded responsibility for maintaining their most important resource, talented labor, onto the shoulders of the laborers.
(Too prolix first time through). Ford, GM and Chrysler have contracts with their most important suppliers to ensure a steady stream of tires, electrical components, and other raw materials to make sure they can keep producing cars. The union contracts, with their minimums and health and pension benefits, are essentially the same thing, a way for the producers to ensure that they have a constantly available supply of labor, in order that they can keep their pipeline flowing with new entertainment product.
We, the free-lance employees of the mega-congloms, are technically hired from project to project, but we are essentially full time employees, and should be treated to at least a modicum of the normal benefits, like health and pension, that most other employees in the US receive.
With network income more and more reliant on ratings from reality shows, it is essential for the majors to bring their reality labor practices in line with what they do with the rest of the industry, such as scripted and features, where nearly everyone gets benefits. So, yes, strike, and I applaud the courage of those sixteen people for sticking up for what is right and reasonable.
Hollywood is Detroit with nicer weather if the Unions have their way. Yes, it stinks to work long hours, but at $4k/wk+ And a pretty amazing amount of flex, it’s weird to me that these guys (they’re almost uniformly men) would pull a stunt like this. If you want to unionize reality TV then you will push it out of LA.
With that logic, child labor and all type of terrible working conditions would have never seen an end.
crass- are you really comparing post production editing to child labor ???? WOW. That’s pretty ignorant a comparison.
Bruce- i agree with you. To the people comparing CA to Detroit’s car labor- when they signed on to the job in Detroit- it was already union and they knew the terms of the agreement. In business terms, if you sign a contract under certain terms, then decide to BREACH the contract, you’ve just terminated your own contract. Well done salt.
Hmm, it worked for the “Survivor” editors, but not for the “Shah” editors. Surprise! They should have picked a successful hill to go die on.
I must agree with Daniel. I see the hard working union worker will be replace non-union worker who will work with lower pay.
This appears to have been unexpected given the success of the other recent strikes on reality programs. I am not a fan of congloms squeezing money out of everywhere while paying fortunes to the senior executives, but I also do not like the strike tactic of timing said strike to endanger the beginning of a season.
I am missing some information – are editors on reality programs paid hourly or a day rate? I thought most editors were hourly. What is the range an editor with light experience makes?
Most editors are on a day rate. Very few places (that are not union) will pay you OT if you go above your 10 hour day, or 12 hour day. Some places want you to work a flat weekly, which then means, not only could you be working extra hours each day unpaid, but extra days as well. Hence, why you keep seeing show after show go on strike.
IT sound like the show will do anything to save on the dollar by using non-union worker.
I’m an editor with a spine, have been for several years in Hollywood. The union are a bunch of bullies and my fellow editors that are union members have a mob mentality. Shame is that it’s mostly AEs that have been suckered into joining. You have paid nearly $3000 plus annual dues to belong to an organization that cannot guarantee you work, offer you zero benefits outside of what you contribute yourself, and when the reality of how shitty a deal you’ve made settles in, you go nuts and ask for “solidarity” from everyone who happens to make a living the same way you do. I’m on my own team, and you can be too.
You are not an editor with a spine, because having spine implies courage, which is what it takes to support collective bargaining and possibly strike if a network is unwilling to negotiate.
You, sir, are an anti-union ideologue.
It’s interesting no one has commented on the fact that RSP/Bravo/NBC was unwilling to even sit down at the table and hear what the post crew was asking for. Sitting down to hear what they want doesn’t mean they have to give in… Shows how little respect these entities have for post. They won’t even listen to what they want, NBC would rather fire everyone (which they could also do after listening, by why bother when they think post is worthless and replaceable.)
For over 150 years, labor movements have beaten greedy corporations; this situation is no different, ‘commen sense’ will prevail.
Bravo only care about getting the series on the air under budget replace the union worker with the non-union member work for Bravo work for them.
cdhaskell- wait a second? you mean to tell me that Bravo, a corporation, is only interested in keeping costs down and on/under budget? Doesn’t that sound like EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IN THE WORLD????? Of course they want to keep the costs down. Why wouldn’t they? This isn’t charity you know! The company doesn’t exist so that they can provide for self-entitled people who think that their job is the most important job on the show. What’s odd is that when the credits roll at the end of an episode, there are usually just 1 or 2 editors listed. Who are all the other 10-50 people listed? I mean they must not be important since the editor is the single most important person on the show. When the editors act like self entitled brats- they are also risking the livelihood and job of everyone else listed in those credits.
I am sorry. The battle between Bravo and the union worker is getting wilder. I can’t wait to see what happened when the case finally the court. Will Bravo or the union become the big winner?
You, WhatKindOfSenseDoesThisMake, are a liar. IF you are a union member, then you would understand the benefits to you. I’ve been a member for 35 years and will be retiring with a guaranteed $3,900 a month pension, medical benefits, and a payout sum of $279,000. I’m a camera operator. You know nothing.
Reality didn’t exist 35 years ago so clearly most of your work was done on union, scripted projects. And during a time when there were not a million choices on tv. And before the internet. So you sir, worked on much higher budgeted projects and reaped the benefits. This is Shahs of Sunset.
HOLD THE LINE
All I know is if I don’t show up at my job I get fired. I can call it a strike or whatever I want to, HR will have a good laugh and find a replacement. If you want better benefits negotiate it into your benefits package when you get hired. If the company isn’t paying an equitable wage for the job, they won’t be able to hire anyone – they’ll have to offer more money or better benefits.
Well said! I hate when people sign on to a show knowing full well what the terms are all the while planning to flip it. So shady…..
Anonymous — I take it you don’t work in Reality TV. You don’t get to “negotiate” for benefit packages…and very rarely is there even an HR department lol. My last show I did (which mind you did very well and as a cable show pulled between 3-4mill viewers per ep) posted in a motel. Reality TV is almost all freelance and set up gig to gig. There are tons of crazy things done to save a penny and skirt laws. I know people who’ve worked at the same production company for over 5 years and not seen any benefits. They just “roll you” from show to show and have you resign with each deal, so even though you are a full time employee and in almost all other industries you’d see some sort of benefits, they can skirt this. Everything is very short term and it’s always a take it or leave it. The industry is set up so on scripted shows so that these exact same positions receive benefits through collective bargaining of their Unions. Once again – it’s not the companies giving benefits because half of the time these companies are only even set up as a one off to produce a show and then shut down or just “renamed” after a few productions. Reality tv cropped up and never had any regulation or standards really set up before the big boom and so it became standard for some very sweat-shop like conditions. The editors struck because they want to be assured they will receive compensation for OT worked, they will get contribution to the health coverage plan from the union (which you also do pay into BTW it’s not free), and the ability to have a sick day and not take a huge financial hit from it being unpaid.
Yes, you do get to negotiate for benefits. Here’s how you do it; When interviewing for the position, and then subsequently being made the offer for employment, you counteroffer your terms for employment. If they are rejected, then you simply also reject the initial offer and say thank you, but no thanks. See what happened there? You just negotiated your employment terms. Bravo! :)
This would be done by someone with integrity and character. As opposed to being sneaky and accepting employment under one set of terms, knowing full well that you’re going to breach your agreement and attempt to hijack the show with an attempt to earn no money, while giving no additional consideration to the employer on a contract already signed into.
the latter is similar to negotiating with terrorists.
FedUp…..why are you so biased, and angry. One can ‘assume’ you’re not a union or guild employee. So, if you have no skin in the game, get out of the conversation. However, IF you’re in the Producers Guild – which is what you sound like – YOU ARE IN A UNION. So, once again, zip it.
Mike the I.A. Decorating Guy: Remember what they say about assuming? :) No, I am not in the PGA. I am in an Union though. However, my union doesn’t use tactics like the IA do. And I never sign on to a project if going in it’s non-union. I’ll never lie to them and sign on to a non-union gig, then try to flip it union. That’s bad business and my WORD actually means something to me. This is why i never have these problems. Because I respect my union and do not ever sign on to a project that is not already a signatory to the union PRIOR to commencement of services.
You don’t need to have ‘skin in the game’ in order to have an opinion. Why am i against the IA? Well, simply because of the terrorist tactics they use in their efforts to squeeze the producers for more money, then cry when it doesn’t work. It’s actually very quite simple. They are responsible for the firing of those editors. And right before the holidays! Great job IA! You all should be proud!
And Mike, this whole issue has caused a lot of other people, whom are my friends, and are not editors or AE’s to lose their own jobs because they have ‘no skin in the game’ with the editors/Bravo & IA. They are the OTHER human beings that are working on the show, that are now looking for other work thanks to the IA.
So Mike, you should really ZIP IT. :)
All of the producers are union. Sure, it’s called ‘The Producers Guild’, but it’s a union. And, the directors are members of ‘The Directors Guild’. The ‘talent’ are members of ‘The Screen Actors Guild’…..THOSE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN UNIONS WITH ARROGANT TITLES. Let’s say it like it is — the directors union, the producers union, the actors union, etc… So, perhaps ‘they’, including that arrogant, entitled pretty boy Ryan Seacrest, need to look at WHO THEY REALLY ARE. THEY ARE UNION. THEY WANT THAT PROTECTION. and, they are compete, thoughtless, pigs..
The PGA, DGA and SAG do not behave as shady as IATSE does. IATSE is the mafia. Simple as that. But the difference is when IATSE doesnt get what it wants, they throw tempter tantrums.
You didnt mention the post supervisors, post coordinators, production assistants, story assists in your rant? What union are they a part of? Oh thats right, they have no union. Which means they are all fired now too thanks IATSE.
Yep. 100% agree.
Sometime you will need a score card to tell who is the good guy from the bad guy. It is about the almighty dollar and who will get it. I got a feeling that this show will manage to get renewal for a new season and the union worker will be on the outside with non-union worker manage to get the show under budget.
@Fed up…
Really? Temper tantrums? As in striking when producers, and studios, lie and refuse to negotiate in good faith? As in, lawsuits when IA members are slaughtered on train tracks when producers lie about the safety of the remote location shoot? As in, filing a grievance when producers fuck with workers time cards? You mean THOSE tantrums.
And hey, the list that you threw out there — if they care about their jobs, they can join IA. No ones stopping them. Actually, IA will m them a great deal if they want to join. But, given that they’re non-union pissholes they’ll just move on to another non union gig where they can get their immediate satisfaction. Union work s about the LONGTERM. So, idiot, grow the fuck up sore loser.
Yes, Temper tantrums. And no one here is talking about the tragic accident in GA. No one. Not sure why you even brought that up. There’s a big difference between the soul that was lost in GA, and some self entitled editors thinking they can bully their employer. The discussion here is simply about the REALITY SHOW that a few editors signed on to when they NEGOTIATED their terms for employment and are now trying to RENEGOTIATE their terms to no avail. So when you say that Bravo is not willing to negotiate in good faith, you are wrong. They already negotiated in good faith when they hired the editors that are now being replaced. They have no legal or moral obligation to RE-negotiate their employment terms if they do not feel that they need to. So, you call me a sore loser, HA! Your rant clearly reeks of one that is sore that they lost. :)
Fed up…You’re an idiot. The editors could have joined the union. If they chose not to, and would rather cry over their lost jobs, so be it. Non union workers are not fired so that union workers can be employed. Non union folks are offered the opportunity to become a part of an organization that will enhance and improve their lives — but, I guess some guys would rather go to websites and bitch about losing their non-union jobs. Too bad. Non union editors will always lose out. Non union gets you nowhere in movies or TV production. It’s a dead end road.
urapainintheass – nice job with the name calling- you must be an IATSE bully having a temper tantrum right now. I appreciate your proving my point, right here, right now. Thank you! IATSE isn’t getting what it wants, so they come here and start name calling and crying like little babies. For the record, your message makes no sense, so many non sequiturs, i am not surprised you’ve resorted to name calling. IATSE is worthless. !0000% completely worthless to the lives of its members.
If you’re an employee and dont show up to do your job. Can’t you be fired? In the real world, u csn
Yes, you can be fired. Seems like a lot of people have forgotten about the air traffic controller strike in the 80s.
I remember what happened to the air controller and how they was replace in 1980. I believe that it took year before the union was available to recover.
“Bravo will continue the show non-union” – where? Anyone who takes work on this in any state where Bravo has roots will be discovered and their name and reputation will be sh*t! This isn’t about 15 editors anymore, it’s about anyone’s right to unionize, regardless of what you do for a living.
That show is over. Too bad. Bravo will probably spend more doing this than they would have had they taken it union.
“Anyone who takes work on this in any state where Bravo has roots will be discovered and their name and reputation will be sh*t!” HA!! No way! That’ll never happen! “it’s about anyone’s right to unionize” YEs, people have the right to unionize, but employers do not have to be forced to say yes. Sorry folks.
“That show is over. ” Do you really think the viewers really care if a show is union or non union. They care about as much as the car buying public cares weather they buy a car from a union plant or a non union plant. In other words the only people that care are union workers. The public doesn’t really care. Also do you really think only union editors can do that job? Just like the NON UNION cars coming out of the south are every bit as good as the UNION cars coming out of the union plants in the north.
Actually, I think the opposite is true. Any show runners who see these editors resumes come across their desks will likely trash them for fear of them striking their production.
IATSE did what they do best, get people fired. Good job IATSE. It may be the employees rights to want to organize even after they knowingly signed on to a non-union job, probably because IATSE couldn’t help them find union work, but knew what they signed on to and then tried to flip it union? Does no one have any integrity anymore? The editors walking off just also now cost the story team, post supervisors, post coordinators and production assistants their jobs as well! They do not benefit from IATSE! They are all freelance just as the editors are and are not corporate employees of Bravo, but they are all unemployed now too while these greedy editors strike! So selfish! When you sign on to a non-union gig, don’t be surprised when its NON-UNION! Stand by your word- if it means anything to you! It may be their right to strike and want to unionize, but its also Bravo’s right to NOT unionize! There is nothing in the law that says that they have to grant the unionization. So now that they got fired and IATSE was showed up by Bravo, IATSE is going to try to do damage control and claim its illegal for Bravo to fire them. Translation: its time to throw a temper tantrum and kick and scream because they didn’t get what they wanted.
Very Well Said, “Fed Up.” I second this.
Most industry folks on the Heard Entertainment channel seem to side with Seacrest. Check it out at goheard dot com
You wouldn’t be working unpaid overtime if you were paid less and had repo editors instead of one. You want 4k a week, too bad. Hire an assistant and pay them to do your work that you can’t handle but agreed to do.
Time in time out. Work all year instead of one month. Like everybody else. Go into being in front of the camera if you want to live like a big shot movie star. It’s just work. It’s not a f n deal or no deal price is right show.
Unions are s-o-o-o-o last century.
It will be interested to see who will win the battle in court,union or Bravo.
I too have handled accounting and payroll for many reality shows in LA and NY and I can say we always paid overtime. Reality companies know that state and fed labor claims are the basis for organization and don’t want to give them any in-roads.
What’s more is that the editors are all overscale anyway. The AEs are where the companies really get hit because the rates jump up significantly and the night premiums kick in for the loaders. Local 700 would run into much less resistance if they had some intermediate contract to sign people up to (the DGA allows negotiated rates so long as PH+W is paid), but they want it all at once.
We’ll said. I’d say “Bravo”…but F Bravo.
I saw the comment from the person working payroll. I would like them to clarify if they work IN HOUSE at the production company or at a payroll company like Entertainment Partners? Reason being, it always APPEARS overtime is being paid. If you look at the paychecks you are issued each week, the numbers are always fudged around to look like “OT” was paid but it still only equals out to the base rate you agreed upon for a general shift. They just change the base rate and dilute your hourly so instead of making say $80 an hour….you now make $50/hr and then worked X hours of OT to then equal out to the $80hr. This may seem like “no biggie” but it is because a lot of people end up putting in 12, 14, sometimes 16+hr days all for the same paycheck at the end of the week. The companies always have a very specific way they need you to fill out your timecard, or sometimes they just have you write “Worked” through all the days with a line so there would be no way of even knowing.
I can’t wait to see what happened when this mess finally come before the court and which side the jury will believe. I got a feeling that this will be a long time before the jury will decide the case.
I worked in house. All non-exempt non-union employees sign deal memos, payroll start work, and state wage theft prevention forms which indicate their hourly and overtime rates. Yes, the deals cut by line producers often are day rates, but the days have to be defined multiple times in the paperwork signed by the employee. That is – $800 / 10 hr day equals $800 / 11 pay hrs (8 straight plus 2@1.5x) for a base rate of $72.72/hr. Nobody changes that base rate of pay to back into fluctuating overtime. That is strictly illegal and the payroll companies won’t do it without new starts or WTP forms anyway. Further, at our company we would also kick back all nonexempt timecards that had “worked” instead of actual hours, and tried to actively police against bogus hours (eg 8am-8pm every day). The only way we wouldn’t pay OT is if it didn’t show up on the cards. The freelance LPs and showrunners are the ones who are scared of delivering over budget, but the prodco knows that the cost of OT is less than the cost of defending a claim. They also know that ongoing legal is a great way to scare off investors.
The fact of the matter is that reality cos are in the crosshairs of everyone and even if they toe the line in all respects, regulators can still use whatever opposing doctrine they want to audit and or harass reality companies. They know that most prodcos don’t have the coffers to fight lengthy audits or fines even to prove they’ve done it all right.
I wholly grant that smaller and/or newer companies may not have the resources, wherewithal, or battle experience to do all these things. Some may even recognize the risk and still try to get by long enough to cash out the prodco. I suspect Seacrest Prodns though would fall under the former category. I also they didn’t set up their production entities in a way to shield it from the unions and didn’t want to unionize the whole company (instead of the single production) and that is why they punted to Bravo.
Just wondering: aren’t most larger, scripted show union? If reality programming is staying non-union, don’t they have an unfair advantage in competition?
Reality programming never reaches the quality of a good scripted show (diplomatically said), so a level playing field in regards to cost would benefit the quality of the output of the film industry.
The entire reason reality is so attractive to the networks is because it’s so much cheaper to produce. And you’re comparing apples to oranges. Scripted shows are outrageously expensive not only because of union wages and stupid rules like needing an electrician to plug in a fish tank instead of a PA, but mainly due to the astronomical salaries paid to on-camera talent. And who says there has to be a level playing field?
The law is the right to “ORGANIZE”, this didn’t sound very organized. lol
Lets not throw all Unions and all Editors under the bus here because a handful of folks who obviously didn’t know what they were doing when it came to organizing.
“A day after sending RSP subsidiary Berne Productions Inc.a letter requesting talks, the 16-member postproduction crew of the reality show walked off the job…”
My understanding is that other successful union takeovers were done much more strategically, over months/seasons. With the union and employees WORKING with the show/production company. “A day after…” Really? When the season is about to start? I wouldn’t be surprised if Berne didn’t get the letter to RSP and RSP to get it to their legal team in that amount of time. Talk about a blitz! lol
Cutter Rip – These are the terrorist tactics that IATSE uses in an attempt to hijack the production and flip it. They wait until the project has started already, so it would make it harder for the producer to say NO. Essentially you have a group of editors that agreed to do a non-union project, all the while talking to the union behind the producers backs and acting like everything is OK to the producers, then the letter gets fired off, and they walk a day later. This is their way of strong-arming the producers to get what hey want. There’s no logic behind it. It just comes across as shady bullying. There was no ‘good-faith’ displayed by IATSE, yet they try to spin it that Bravo is not operating in good-faith. Their very strategy they implemented starts off on the wrong foot. But for some reason everyone who has had a sip of the kool-aid wants to start shunning Bravo. This message goes out to the newly unemployed Shah’s of Sunset Editors and their families- Enjoy the Kool-Aid! Cause not only do you not have health benefits, but now you’re out of a job, and probably burned a few bridges with the showrunners who are not employees of Bravo and are freelance just like YOU! Well played! BRAVO!
This why anyone need a lawyer who understand the corporation should have read the contract before signing the contract.
I’ve cut in Los Angeles regularly since a few years before the reality boom and will never take long term work in reality because I keep hearing my friends who are reality editors bitch about how bad it is when it comes to hours and compensation. It’s not a secret and its been over a decade. It’s like someone taking a job on a fishing boat and not expecting to get wet.
I find the work interesting, getting to build story over just doing notes and being a software operator is rewarding. I hear my friends in reality take pride in this too, but yes, frustrating because of the time and money. So its a trade off.
For me, I wanna cut! Not be Norma Rae. This show will be over before your headache is.
(so okay, let me throw my fellow editors under the bus for a moment) lol
I have seen (and done most of) the whole gamut of editing work in this town from porn to scripted network premieres. Our job is NOT THAT HARD. Long hours, pressure and stress, sure. But we are not out in the elements, certainly not put in life threatening situations and far from minimum wage. Good grief. I hate to say this against “my people” but many of them are a very self entitled bunch. Not to mention, the ones I have seen bitch the most are also working the least. (my experience and opinion, I have had to manage editors too – I stop doing that because it isn’t worth it.)
See how long your bitching lasts when you discuss this with your blue collar friends and family. Talk to a lawyer or a doctor about how long it took you to get your first decent paying gig and how much education it took.
We got it good, you are just making it hard for yourselves.
Editors decided to strike a production I was working on once and I nearly got laid off because of it. Every time I saw one of their resumes show up at other production companies, I made a point to point this out to the show runner. I did this for nearly five years.
I can’t wait to see who will be the winner in the court,Bravo or the union worker. It will be interested to how many viewer will come back after the strike is over.
Good point Stiv, I forgot to mention that. The whole “cross our line and you will never work in town again” bit works two ways! Schedulers need to handle scheduling and getting edits done, they don’t want this headache and are not empowered to deal with it anyway.
These situations should be handled much higher on the ladder. (oh and those promises that IATSE is telling you editors about them greener pastures – I don’t know about all the time but heard this first hand from a show that went union while my friend was there – just remember THEY ARE A BUSINESS TOO, your importance and those promises will go to the way side when your not such a key player (i.e. getting them inside) They got your dues and show and are moving on.
Wow, I am sounding more non-union with every argument I post.
No cutter rip- you’re sounding more logical and human. :)
Well said though. I agree with the points you’ve made.
Also, people, do you really think that Bravo (or any other company), and the show runners will care if these 16 editors edit for them in the future or not? Hmmm.. probably not at this point. On the flip side- the editors need show runners and producers to HIRE THEM! That’s how it works, right? Unless these editors are the ones that developed and pitched the show to Bravo, then this would be a moot point. So why bite the hand that feeds you? Anyway, good points cutter.
I can’t wait to see what happened when the case finally land before a judge and jury. Who will win the union or Bravo.
I think something like this would go to the NLRB. I went through one of these before on another production and the union dropped the matter due to not following proper procedures.
Thank your for the information. It look like no will win. I can’t wait to see how long before the new Shahs of Sunset will appear on Bravo when the strike is finally over and settle.