July 20-22 Weekend Actuals
1. Dark Knight Rises (Legendary/Warner Bros) NEW [4,404 Theaters] PG13
Friday $75.8M, Saturday $44.9M, Sunday $40.2M, Weekend $160.9M2. Ice Age 4 (Blue Sky/Fox) Week 2 [3,886 Theaters] PG
Friday $6.8M, Saturday $7.8M, Sunday $5.9M, Weekend $20.4M (-56%)
Domestic Cume $88.8M Foreign Cume $438.0M, Global Cume $526.8M3. Amazing Spider-Man (Columbia/Sony) Week 3 [3,753 Theaters] PG13
Friday $3.4M, Saturday $4.3M, Sunday $3.2M, Weekend $10.9M (-69%), Cume $228.6M4. Ted (MRC/Universal) Week 4 [3,214 Theaters] R
Friday $3.2M, Saturday $3.9M, Sunday $2.9M, Weekend $10.0M (-55%), Cume $180.4M5. Brave (Pixar/Disney) Week 5 [2,899 Theaters] PG
Friday $1.9M, Saturday $2.3M, Sunday $1.8M, Weekend $6.0M (46%), Cume $208.8M6. Magic Mike (Warner Bros) Week 4 [2,606 Theaters] R
Friday $1.6M, Saturday $1.6M, Sunday $1.1M, Weekend $4.3M (-52%), Cume $102.0M7. Savages (Universal) Week 3 [2,336 Theaters] R
Friday $1.0K, Saturday $1.3M, Sunday, $1.1M, Weekend $3.4M (-64%), Cume $40.1M8. Madea’s Witness Protection (TPerry/Lionsgate) Week 4 [1,540 Theaters] PG13
Friday $713K, Saturday $949K,Sunday $591K, Weekend $2.3M (-60%), Cume $60.3M9. Moonrise Kingdom (Focus Features) Week 9 [895 Theaters] PG13
Friday $557K, Saturday $748K, Sunday $527K, Weekend $1.8M (-51%), Cume $36.1M10. To Room With Love (Sony Classics) Week 5 [552 Theaters] R
Friday $401K, Saturday $602K, $397K, Weekend $1.4M (-43%), Cume $11.1M
Rentrak Won’t Release Worldwide Grosses This Weekend
SUNDAY 11:30 PM, 14TH UPDATE: Tonight my sources see the domestic box office picking up a bit more than the estimates. The Dark Knight Rises domestic tally is now $161.8M but the actual numbers here and abroad will be released by Rentrak, as well as Warner Bros and Legendary Pictures, Overseas, Christopher Nolan’s final installment in his Batman trilogy opened #1 in the UK, Australia, Spain, and the rest of the total 9 countries where it opened. It raked in $A15.1 million in its first four days in Australia. That ranks as the 4th biggest opening weekend Down Under.
Here is the Top Five tally in North America after Sunday:
1. Dark Knight Rises (Legendary/Warner Bros) NEW [4,404 Theaters]
Friday $76.1M, Saturday $45.2M, Sunday $40.5M, Weekend $161.8M
2. Ice Age 4 (Blue Sky/Fox) Week 2 [3,886 Theaters]
Friday $6.6M, Saturday $7.6M, Sunday $3.3M, Weekend $20.3M (-57%)
Domestic Cume $88.8M, Foreign Cume $442.7M, Global Cume $531.5M
3. Amazing Spider-Man (Columbia/Sony) Week 3 [3,753 Theaters]
Friday $3.4M, Saturday $4.2M, Sunday $3.3M, Weekend $10.9M, Cume $228.7M
4. Ted (MRC/Universal) Week 4 [3,214 Theaters]
Friday $3.2M, Saturday $3.8M, Sunday $3.1M, Weekend $10.1M, Cume $180.4M
5. Brave (Pixar/Disney) Week 5 [2,899 Theaters]
Friday $1.9M, Saturday $2.2M, Sunday $1.8M, Weekend $6.0M, Cume $208.8M
SUNDAY 9:20 AM, 13TH UPDATE: It may seem callous to post about less-than-packed theaters around the country and North American and worldwide box office this weekend after the Colorado movie theater tragedy. And of course our hearts go out to those killed and wounded. (I stayed up all Friday post-midnight/pre-dawn reporting on the shooting as the horrendous event unfolded.) But this is an entertainment business website that tracks movie grosses. And so many filmmakers inside and outside Hollywood worked exhaustively on The Dark Knight Rises — just as they do on every pic released each year — that the final product should be examined for its success vis a vis ticket sales. Warner Bros Pictures has decided not to release its box office results this weekend until Monday. Also some other studios. Rentrak won’t report worldwide estimates. That said, there can be no doubt that Warner Bros and Legendary Pictures last installment of Christopher Nolan’s Batman trilogy is huge in terms of domestic grosses. In fact the entire moviegoing weekend should be up around +35% over last year, demonstrating the resilience of the public and their love for watching films in the shared experience of a movie theater. Hopefully, with more security provided, the emotional distress and financial setback caused by one psychotic gunman won’t be permanent for theater chains. But the entire movie industry’s shock and grieving over the Aurora tragedy is real and intense. Although the national and international debate over the sociological effect of film violence will be ongoing — and necessary. Now, back to business.
Related: Networks, Not Warner Bros, Pulled ‘Dark Knight Rises’ TV Ads
Business was gargantuan Friday but definitely off Saturday and may be off Sunday, too. I was told Friday night there were a lot of admissions still to count. On Saturday morning my sources said The Dark Knight Rises brought in $77.2 million Friday (give or take one million) from 4,404 domestic theaters. Now that Friday number has been adjusted to $76.1M as either more theaters reported a lesser number, or refunds hit the books. Either way, when looking at it closely this morning, it went down a little. That is still the 3rd all-time opening day and the best 2D single day. There was indeed a huge -41% drop Saturday mostly because of those $30.6M in midnight shows (including $2.2M IMAX grosses) which expanded Friday’s tally. Previous installment The Dark Knight dropped -29% its Saturday. I can now tell you that The Dark Knight Rises made $46.2M Saturday and is projected at $39.3M Sunday (-12%). My sources now say the 3-day weekend cume looks around $161.1M with the caveat that the Colorado tragedy may have an impossible-to-predict effect until Monday actuals. This could still be the largest grossing 2D North American opening weekend ever, past 2008’s The Dark Knight at $158M. However, despite the “like nothing ever happened” box office momentum which Warner Bros saw Friday morning, it is clear that Dark Knight Rises numbers won’t be record-breaking overall. Yes, because of pre-sales, midnights shattered the $18.4M generated by Marvel’s The Avengers earlier this summer. But The Dark Knight Rises didn’t beat Avengers‘ $80.5M Friday and won’t come near Avengers‘ all-time $207.4M collected from 2D, Digital 3D, RealD, and IMAX 3D.
Here’s the rest of the Top Ten list based on weekend estimates:
6. Magic Mike (Warner Bros) Week 4 [2,606 Theaters]
Friday $1.6M, Saturday $1.5M, Weekend $4.3M, Cume $102.0M
7. Savages (Universal) Week 3 [2,336 Theaters]
Friday $990K, Saturday $1.2M, Weekend $3.3M, Cume $40.0M
8. Madea’s Witness Protection (TPerry/Lionsgate) Week 4 [1,540 Theaters]
Friday $744K, Saturday $984K, Weekend $2.3M, Cume $60.4M
9. Moonrise Kingdom (Focus Features) Week 9 [895 Theaters]
Friday $551K, Saturday $741K, Weekend $1.8M, Cume $36.1M
10. To Room With Love (Sony Classics) Week 5 [552 Theaters]
Friday $401K, Saturday $602K, Weekend $1.5M, Cume $11.2M
FRIDAY 6 PM, 9TH UPDATE: No major box office changes to report except that The Dark Knight Rises is running less today than Marvel’s The Avengers but had more midnight business. So the two films are running neck and neck. As of 6 PM, The Dark Knight Rises in 4,404 domestic theaters was Friday $80M and weekend $180M estimates.
EXCLUSIVE… FRIDAY 2 PM, 8TH UPDATE: Based on matinee projections, The Dark Knight Rises is looking to open with a gargantuan $80M-85M today (which includes $30.6M from midnights). That’s about even with Marvel’s The Avengers opening Friday of $80.5M. Hollywood is making weekend projections of $180M-$200M but Warner Bros and Legendary Pictures remain mute.
EXCLUSIVE… FRIDAY 12 PM, 7TH UPDATE: Warner Bros sources tell me now they’re seeing no decrease in movie ticket grosses for The Dark Knight Rises. “What happened in Colorado is a tragedy, make no mistake about it. But East Coast numbers are coming in like nothing ever happened. We grossed half a million dollars by 10 AM just in Manhattan.” One reason for that is because most of today’s grosses, and a good portion of this weekend’s, consisted of $30M in pre-sales. So whether moviegoers show up or not to the theaters doesn’t matter: they still paid for their tickets. The real-time effect of the Aurora movie theater shooting likely won’t be felt at the box office until Saturday at the earliest and more likely Sunday and next week and next weekend as pre-release sales decrease. “One incident, as horrific as it is, does not necessarily cause people to want to change their patterns,” a Warner Bros exec explained to me. “Young people still want to go to movie theaters and they still want to see this movie.”
Meanwhile, the official North American midnights number for The Dark Knight Rises is public now: it opened with $30.640M from 3,825 locations (for $8,010 per location). Included in the overall total are IMAX grosses of $2.232M from 330 locations (for $7,041 per location). This 2D midnights number shatters the $18.4M midnights generated by 3D Marvel’s The Avengers earlier this summer. Still, with international grosses from 9 countries totalling $10.4M, that’s already $71M worldwide for the mega-pic before it’s even in wide release today. Remember that the largest grossing 2D North American opening weekend ever remains 2008’s The Dark Knight at $158M – and there’s no doubt The Dark Knight Rises will beat that. (Not adjusted for inflation or higher ticket prices). But can it beat Avengers‘ all-time $207.4M collected from 2D, Digital 3D, RealD, and IMAX 3D theaters?
At its widest release, The Dark Knight Rises will debut in 4,404 domestic theaters from Friday through Sunday, including 332 IMAX locations. Hollywood now believes chances are slim that The Dark Knight Rises now can beat The Avengers weekend record because of the fear, panic, and security concerns resulting from today’s movie theater shooting. [And, yes, I know it seems callous for me to post about the tragedy in relationship to box office. But this is an entertainment business website that tracks movie grosses.]
EXCLUSIVE… FRIDAY 6:30 AM, 6TH UPDATE: I’ve just learned that Warner Bros’ and Legendary Pictures’ 2D The Dark Knight Rises is “headed north of $28M” for its 3,700 midnight showings of the pic.
EXCLUSIVE… FRIDAY 3 AM, 5TH UPDATE: Fans waited in long lines for hours despite the sweltering heat and the torrential rains in some parts of North America just to attend one of the 3,700 Thursday midnight show locations for Warner Bros’ and Legendary Pictures’ 2D The Dark Knight Rises. Now my sources are tracking this final installment of Chris Nolan’s Batman trilogy to open with a whopping $27+M. “The West Coast is still selling tickets with some theatres adding 3 AM shows,” a Warner Bros exec told me. “This is effing huge!” The Dark Knight Rises’ 2D midnights number shatters the $18.4M midnights generated by 3D Marvel’s The Avengers earlier this summer. With pre-sales of $30M and international grosses from 9 countries totalling $10.4M, that’s already $67.4M worldwide for the mega-pic before it’s even in wide release. Hollywood began emailing me they thought this weekend could generate between $185M-$210M in domestic grosses and possibly set a new weekend record.
But then tragedy struck. Colorado’s mass shooting happened around 
12:39 AM today leaving 14 dead and 50 wounded after a lone gunman opened fire in a packed suburban movie theater at the Aurora Town Center where The Dark Knight Rises was showing just after midnight. Now no one in the movie business knows how this terrible event will affect box office today. Despite isolated incidents, nothing on this horrific scale has ever occurred inside film theaters. “Not what you expect to happen when you’re waiting in line to go to the blockbuster film of the summer,” one local TV anchor told viewers.
Moviegoers at first thought the gunshots were part of the film’s action sequences. Police told TV stations the shooting was first reported at 12:39 AM after the gunman “just appeared” from the front of Theater 9. Then police arrived and found the suspect in the rear of the theater. The adult male attired in protective gear had a rifle and two other guns when he was taken into custody, authorities said.
In other parts of the country, first fans lined up for hours ahead of time to see The Dark Knight Rises at the midnight screenings at NYC’s AMC Loews Lincoln Square 13 Theater. Scalpers had been selling those tickets for $65 and as much as $100 for days prior. At the AMC Uptown in Washington, crowds endured torrential rain and lightning but kept standing in line even when the theater didn’t open its doors on time.
THURSDAY 7:15 PM, 4TH UPDATE: The Dark Knight Rises began its international release Thursday by “dominating everywhere”, according to my sources. I’ve learned the foreign gross so far is an incredible $10.4M from only 9 countries. This is 83% higher than 2008’s The Dark Knight in the same markets. (Not calculating for inflation and higher ticket prices.) The 3 key territories that opened today were: Australia AUD$3.66M (US$3.74M) from 628 screens. That’s 60% ahead of The Dark Knight‘s opening day. “This is particularly spectacular considering that today is not a holiday versus TDK’s holiday opening day,” an exec tells me. As good as Chris Nolan’s Batpic finale’s opening day is, it was well below Marvel’s The Avengers, which smashed the Australian box office on its opening day of release with a record breaking AUD$6M (USD$6.2M). Of course Avengers was 3D and also opened on one of Australia’s biggest holidays: ANZAC. Whereas The Dark Knight Rises opening didn’t include a holiday. And Korea KRW 3.15b (US$2.7m) from 1059 screens, which is 131% higher than The Dark Knight‘s opening. And Taiwan NT$ 26.3m (US$878k) from 228 screens, which is 175% ahead of The Dark Knight. Australia began The Dark Knight Rises foreign rollout: Warner Bros this coming weekend is releasing into only 17 international markets, representing 6,300 screens. These include 4 of the Top Ten markets: UK, Spain, Australia, and Korea.
Related: ‘Dark Knight Rises’ Starts Foreign “Dominating” 9 Countries
THURSDAY 6 PM, 3RD UPDATE: A Warner Bros executive just told me, The Dark Knight Rises is tearing up the box office at midnight. It should pass Marvel’s The Avengers‘ $18.7M as the largest superhero midnight show of all time.” And remember: Avengers also holds the domestic record for the largest opening weekend gross. Warner Bros. Pictures’ and Legendary Pictures’ mega-movie has 2,500 sold-out showtimes on Fandango, and today is trending to be one of that big online ticket vendor’s top-selling Thursdays in the company’s 12–year history. Most interesting is that Chris Nolan’s Batman trilogy finale is outpacing the early summer blockbuster Marvel’s The Avengers in ticket sales at the same point in Fandango’s sales cycle. “Today’s ticket sales are relentless, just like the action in the movie,” a Fandango executive just told me. Disney began releasing Avengers in Digital 3D, RealD and IMAX 3D after midnight into about 2,500 locations around the U.S. and Canada, and some theaters kept playing it around the clock into the wee hours. Whether The Dark Knight Rises will screen 24/7 on Friday will depend on how many theaters can convince staff to work overtime. This actioner opens in a whopping 3,700 midnight domestic locations. Like the big theater chain did with Avengers, AMC will be hosting a special showings in IMAX and 2D – the entire Batman trilogy beginning at 6 PM for $40/$25 complete with commorative poster and special lanyard. At its widest release, The Dark Knight Rises will debut in 4,404 domestic theaters from Friday through Sunday, including 332 IMAX locations.
EXCLUSIVE THURSDAY, 2ND UPDATE: According to Fandango, domestic box office online ticket sales for Warner Bros’ and Legendary Pictures’ The Dark Knight Rises currently represents 91% of Thursday’s ticket sales. MovieTickets pegged their number at 87.5% for Wednesday. Earlier this week, Fandango surveyed the pic’s ticket-buyers and discovered that: 97% said the darker tone made them more interested in seeing the movie, 89% claimed the new villain Bane made them excited to see the film, 72% consider themselves fans of director Christopher Nolan, 62% said they’re excited by the fact that more than an hour of the film was shot in IMAX, and 58% said that Christian Bale was the actor they most preferred as Batman.
Warner Bros should be announcing the first foreign box office results. The Dark Knight Rises opens in only 17 international markets this weekend, representing 6,300 screens. These include 4 of the Top Ten movie markets: UK, Spain, Australia, and Korea.
In North America, I can report exclusively that The Dark Knight Rises has already banked $25M in pre-sales.
EXCLUSIVE WEDNESDAY: Here we go again! Another gigantic Hollywood comic book blockbuster opening just after Thursday’s clocks strike midnight. But can The Dark Knight Rises beat Marvel’s The Avengers in weekend grosses and records? Some moguls are telling me no, some moguls are telling me yes. Remember that the largest grossing 2D North American opening weekend ever remains 2008’s The Dark Knight at $158M – and there’s no doubt The Dark Knight Rises will best that by a lot, maybe as much as $195+M. (Not adjusted for inflation or higher ticket prices). But can it best Avengers‘ all-time $207.4M collected from 2D, Digital 3D, RealD, and IMAX 3D theaters? In summary, the reasons pro are: kids are out of school, people are on vacation, this is the last and scariest of the series. The reasons con are: it’s only a 2D movie whereas Avengers made 52% of its money from 3D, it has a 21-minute longer running time than Avengers’, this is a movie about one caped crusader with no superpowers whereas Avengers was billed as the ‘Superhero Team-Up Of A Lifetime’, it’s following both Avengers and The Amazing Spider-Man this summer, and the Viacom-DirecTV battle has prevented a lot of Dark Knight Rises TV ads from appearing. Now the only question is how big is big for this $250M film?
MovieTickets.com tells me the pic scooped up 80% of all online ticket sales for Tuesday and Fandango 85%. (The figure for Avengers was 95% for that Thursday.) MovieTickets surveys found that, of the people aware of The Dark Knight Rises, 78% said they would see it opening weekend. Overall, on a scale from 1 to 5, with 1 being little or no interest and 5 being significant interest in seeing it in a movie theater, it averaged 4.8 out of 5 for intent to see. Scalpers reportedly are re-selling The Dark Knight Rises’ midnight IMAX tickets for $65-$100 apiece on both Craigslist and StubHub for NYC’s AMC Loews Lincoln Square 13. — higher even than for Avengers. Yet this may be my favorite Dark Knight Rises pre-release factoid so far: “All the major circuits have asked for more frequent pickups from their Brink’s Truck drivers to deposit the record amount of cash they are anticipating,” a Warner Bros exec told me today.
Related: ‘Marvel’s The Avengers’: Records & Factoids
Related: ‘THE AVENGERS’ NOW BIGGEST OPENER!
This final installment in its Batman trilogy directed by Chris Nolan will be playing in a whopping 3,700 midnight locations around North America and then 4,404 domestic theaters from Friday through Sunday including 332 IMAX locations. (Nolan utilized IMAX cameras for an hour of the footage from the film. That’s even more extensively than he did on The Dark Knight, the first time ever that a major feature film was partially shot with IMAX cameras.) But don’t expect a gigantic foreign number right away. Remember that Disney’s international gross of $441.5M was collected because The Avengers played almost everywhere around the globe for the first 12 days including Friday in Russia ($17.9M) and Saturday in China ($17.4M). By contrast, Warner Bros this coming weekend is releasing The Dark Knight Rises into only 17 international markets, representing 6,300 screens. These include 4 of the Top Ten movie markets: UK, Spain, Australia, and Korea. The Dark Knight Rises already has taken £1 million in advance booking at BFI IMAX, breaking all previous sales records.
The studio will open another 40 markets over the second weekend and include all major markets with the exception of Italy (August) and China where The China Film Group, which sets release dates for U.S. films, wants to pit The Dark Knight Rises against Sony’s The Amazing Spider-Man on August 30th. “That August date is not written in stone, and we are in talks with China Film to find a date that works for everybody,” a Warner Bros exec tells Deadline. “Warner Bros would never not release the film in China.” In total overseas, the film is projected to show on approximately 20,000 foreign screens.
Meanwhile Nolan has been hating on the pre-release comparisons of his pic with Avengers: “I don’t want to be just a superhero movie. I want to be our movie,” he told EW. “But I don’t want to seem arrogant, either. I just want people to come into the theater with only the two previous [Batman] movies in their heads.” As for this finale, Nolan said “The Lord of the Rings trilogy was in the back of our minds the entire time we were making these. There are very few great third films. There are certain third films that exist to fulfill a requirement for a sequel. I wanted a third film that had something to say, that was a conclusion to a larger story.”
Related: Co-Financier Thomas Tull Makes ‘Dark Knight Rises’ Cameo
Related: Warner Bros Civil War? Its Rotten Tomatoes Suspends Comments On Its ‘Dark Knight Rises’ After Movie Reviewers Threatened
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His comment that he doesn’t want TDKR to “be just a superhero movie” sums up why his Batman films have never really clicked with me. I don’t agree with his belief that it’s necessary for a Batman movie to be dark, bleak and serious in order for it to be good. In my opinion the Avengers was the perfect example of a good superhero movie in that it combined lightness and fun with good writing and characters. I hope that that any forthcoming non-Nolan Batman movies can incorporate a little bit more of the Avengers sensibilities.
Nolan is right, his films are not superhero films, they are a lot better than that and a lot more timely. They are crime dramas that speak about a man and a society that is crumbling by its own corruption. Avengers was a pretty good movie but the film is a happy meal of cool ideals compared to Nolan’s Batman trilogy, which can be compared to a four course dinner of thought and reflection about the world we live in.
I second that. Well put
I’m no a fan of his other movies, but he’s got it on the nose on this one–a well thought out trilogy and fresh interpretation on the superhero genre.
He handling it modestly so I say kudos to Nolan–hope the film does well.
I think both are great in their own way, “The Avengers” was fantastic and the Nolan “Batman” films have been superb as well. “The Avengers” is jump out of your seat, adrenaline filled, heart beating, fist pumping, action packed fun. While “The Dark Knight” is provocative, dark, broding, intense crime drama suspense. To me there is no one kind of film is better, because the both exceed exceptionally well at what they set out to do. That’s why people kill me they complain about either film because they’re not more like the other, now that would just be damn boring. ‘The Avengers” can’t be made like TDK, it’s just not that type of film, no more than TDK could be made like “The Avengers”. I happen to enjoy both films for different reasons, and both films are knockouts in my opinion. I’m looking forward to seeing TDKR tomorrow night, hopefully that will be great as well.
What a crock of hooey. Nolan’s Batman movies are nothing more than an ode to his ego. As with Inception they’re bloated, overlong, pretentious and self-aggrandizing. It’s Nolan saying “Looky everyone! I be the smartest dude making movies today!” The bottom line is that Batman is a superhero and therefore any movie featuring Batman as the main protagonist is a superhero movie. Nolan can dress it up that sentiment all he wants but as the saying goes, “You can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still just a pig wearing lipstick.”
Yes. All Superhero movies should look and feel like the AVENGERS. All of them.
Dear Lord, as if the massive box office returns don’t point to the huge popularity of Nolan’s films, no less a comic book geek than Kevin Smith has exalted the Dark Knight as the best superhero movie ever.
What you don’t get, is that as the dominant genre of this decade, much like the Westerns of the 1950s-1070s… Superhero movies can be social commentary, political allegory, or metaphor for something else. They can also be mindless, fun entertainment like the AVENGERS. THEY DON’T ALL HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME STYLE AND TONE. Get it, now?
Haha, love how you try to slip that ‘mindless fun entertainment’ line in there. While i can’t say that i agree with that logic, “The Avengers” & TDK are indeed totally different kinds of films, which is cool. It’s differences like these films that help give the comic book film genre versatility and broader ranges, which is the way it’s supposed to be.
Um, who the hell are you responding to? Cos the guy before didn’t say all superhero films need the same style and tone. But I’m guessing your capacity for rational thought went out the window as soon as the first flecks of foam formed.
BTW…you lost me completely when you wheeled out Heavvie Kevvie as the ultimate authority on cinematic greatness.
This is like the king hell of WTF moments. Death threats on RT. Shootings in cinemas. All connected to a film that’ll be sitting next to Jack and Jill in the bargain bin in 2014. Like Inception today. I mean, who really cares about Inception. I’ve yet to come across anyone who cherishes that con job the same way Star Wars, Mulholland Drive, Die Hard, Alien or some of Jim Cameron’s stuff is cherished today.
Let’s face it, Nolan’s Batman films are giant con jobs. They pretend to explore serious themes. Just so the audience can feel self-important whilst watching craptastic popcorn blockbusters with the brains of Transformers 3. They say nothing about life or humanity that’s not clichéd, hackneyed or blatantly obvious. Their stories say nothing genuinely new and novel.
However, there’s one thing about TDKR that’s both new and novel, and truly sad and depressing, and that’s the consumer jihad against dissenters. The violence, anger and hate generated against those who refuse to endorse “Batman the product” are immorality personified.
Of course Nolan endorses this jihad. Unable to think beyond his own ego, he labels Limbaugh’s interruption “bizarre” whilst identifying with the goons who threaten and abuse those who reject and repudiate Batman the product. A morally courageous man would have rejected Limbaugh’s repugnant attempts to rabble rouse whilst also condemning the calculated savagery and viciousness of his rabid fans.
However, one suspects that Nolan is luxuriating in the fan jihad, lost in his favorite dream, much like his doppelganger from Inception, Cobb.
Eva, your response is pretty over the top. There are still plenty of people who value the movie Inception. And no the Dark Knight Rises will not be in the bargain bins by 2014 just because you happen to not like the film. There haven’t been “shootings in cinemas.” There was ONE shooting in ONE cinema by ONE deranged individual. It’s one two many, but that doesn’t make it the fault of Christopher Nolan.
Jeez. Why so angry Eva?
So what’s your point? Are you saying because something is a superhero movie that it’s not worthy of being something special or can become something out of the ordinary? That kind of ignorant attitude is what has held the genre back before this new golden age of Oscar caliber films came to light.
I asked my son what is the Batman attraction. He and his brother have loved him forever and they are now 16 and 20. He said Mom, he is just a guy with gadgets, that had a bad childhood. He is not a superhero as he has no powers, just a guy with gadgets.
I third that.
While I see your point, I have to point out that the world Batman/Bruce lives is in is completely different in tone then that of any Avengers related film. If you transplanted the “tones” of Iron Man or The Avengers into Batman if would end up being more like Batman Forever(to a lesser extent) because it just doesn’t fit.
To me, Nolan’s films have done something that is rarely done, it raised Batman, his character, his world, and his problems out of just being a “Comic Book Film”. It became more. It became something that we would all relate to on some level and ponder on. The moral dilemma’s and plot twists in the Dark Knight alone make your head spin. Because sometimes the world is dark, sometimes we can’t handle it.
Nolan has raised one of the most well known characters from the ashes and built a beacon to stand tall and remind everyone not just what film-making is about, but what life is about.
This entire thread shows why Hollywood is so loathed by the rest of the world – while most of mankind grieves for the loss of huiman life, you debate the intricacies of a lame, overdone movie series.
The violence is Hollywood is the reason young Mr. Holmes snapped. and the blood in Aurora is on the hands of Christopher Nolan, Warner Bros. and whoever wrote this dreck. The violence in movies has caused another mass killing and I hope Hollywood is happy.
Nolan, Warner Brothers executives and the writers of the Batman movies (and others of its ilk) should be brought up on criminal charges. They killed those 12 people just as surely as the gunman.
Good Lord. It’s always someone else’s fault, right? Are you part of the soon-to-be Holmes defense team?
Holmes pulled trigger. HE killed 12 people, not Nolan or Warner Brothers. The violence in Hollywood is why he snapped?! My God. By that idiotic & ass-backwards logic, ALL of us should’ve turn psycho by now. Violence isn’t new to Hollywood, TV News, Radio, Newspapers, the Internet, or any other media outlet. You sure you’re not part of the defense team? Or are you some mouthpiece of Dershovitz, or Cochran, or Bob Dole?
Take your “It’s not my fault!” immaturity and grow up. I hope my harsh words don’t make YOU snap. I’d hate for you to blame someone else for YOUR actions…
Yes, why are all you terrible people talking about a movie on an entertainment website? The nerve! You should be out there doing something to help the victims like trolling comment boards.
WE should get back to prayer in school. Teaching kids that they are not accidents but created by God the giver of life. lets show them DNA. the fingerprint of God. let us reveal the truth. Lets get back to biblical values. all people are created in the image of God. That maked each life special and sacred. Lets teach them the gospel and the good news of salvation. the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ. when we ignore God and push him out of society then as the scripture states “as a man sows that will he also reap”
Boycott violence. Boycott those who profit from violence. Boycott Warner Bros and the Dark Knight Rises.
Hollywood isn’t loathed by the rest of the world. The rest of the world loves Hollywood. It’s our fringe right-wing nut jobs who blame movie directors as opposed to gun lobbyists for tragedies like this one that the world pities for their ignorance.
Wow, Lance, you’re just as bad as lamestream media, wanting to point the finger at everyone else instead of blaming the one person who should be held accountable for his actions: James Holmes. The blame should rest solely on this man’s shoulders.
I really hope the FBI has “Lance Leno” on some sort of watchlist; blaming Warner Bros and Christopher Nolan for some psychotic waste of life killing innocent movie-goers? Who do you NOT hate?
Why are you even reading and posting on a site about box office then? Regardless, people aren’t even discussing b.o. on this thread. If you hadn’t noticed pretty much every post is about the tragedy with little reference to its financial impact.
Spot on comment insightful one. Couldn’t have said it better myself
What’s wrong with you, Lance?
12 people are dead. The LAST thing they need is people like you attaching it to an agenda.
Bet you feel really good about yourself, don’t you, taking the fictional moral high ground?
Saw TDKR at an afternoon matinee at a multiplex here in the sticks. Happened wifey was free then.
Theater was about 50% full. Don’t get me wrong — this is a very good movie. But it’s not as good as TDK. I enjoyed it, recognize the effort that went into it, and realize any movie anybody would make as a sequel to a giga-blockbuster like TDK was going to suffer in comparison.
IMO, the problem is the story itself. In BB, we saw the conflict within Bruce Wayne; the main story though, was Batman versus Ra’s al Ghul. The conflict in TDK within Bruce Wayne gets superseded by the conflict Bruce Wayne has with Harvey Dent over Rachel at the same time Batman’s fighting the Joker. In TDK, IMO, it’s those two conflicts that shape the movie, and turned it into something special.
In TDKR, we have “Batman playing Hamlet doing Inception.” This time, the conflict within Bruce Wayne can’t be ignored, or rationalized away. That’s a difficult subject to depict on film, let alone wrap into what is in essence, a “war movie.” So, we’re left with birth (BB), death (TDK), and resurrection (TDKR). It’s complete and satisfying, as a whole, but TDKR just isn’t as…dramatic.
As I said, I liked the movie. I want to see it again. But I had the same feeling I had when the credits rolled on Inception.
“The conflict in TDK within Bruce Wayne gets superseded by the conflict Bruce Wayne has with Harvey Dent over Rachel at the same time Batman’s fighting the Joker. In TDK, IMO, it’s those two conflicts that shape the movie, and turned it into something special.”
Sorry Sam Damon,
But in my opinion that feeble, poorly drawn, passionless love triangle is one of the major weaknesses of TDK (a movie I find tedious and overrated) along with its bloated, overly complicated plot. Nolan is tries hard to make a complex narrative filled with interconnected plot strands and characters like HEAT (the movie he admits was his inspiration), but he fails miserably; he includes subplots that are pointless — Is there really any reason why Jim Gordon has to pretend he’s dead? HEAT had fascinating secondary and minor characters, all of which are memorably drawn. TDK has NO interesting or memorable characters beyond the Joker. There isn’t a single relationship in that movie to care about. Batman Begins, on the other hand, has numerous intriguing characters and performances in addition to the main characters (Dr. Crane/Scarecrow, the corrupt cop Flass, Carmine Falcone, Ra’s Al Ghul, even Joe Chill made an impression) and a taut plot that weaves them all together. Batman Begins deserves the praise. TDK is all hype and Ledger’s tragic death.
He didn’t say Batman has to be dark, just that his vision was. And it’s resulted in a wildly successful, award winning trilogy. The key is having your own vision. How much of a disaster would the Avengers have been if when it became clear that none of Marvel’s stand alone movies could come close to touching the Dark Knight’s success someone at Marvel has gone, “wow we better make this one really dark like Batman!”?
If comic book films are to survive they must have uniqueness. Seriously comparing Avengers and Dark Knight Rises is like comparing Young Frankenstein and Taxi Driver. Terrific movies, but far too different for any sensible person to compare.
>comparing Avengers and Dark Knight Rises is like comparing Young Frankenstein and Taxi Driver
I was just thinking that it’s interesting to compare Christopher Nolan’s vision of a New York crime fighter in Batman to Scorsese’s vision of Travis Bickle.
Avengers and TDKR are both films for kids but one is for kids who know they are kids and the other is for kids who think they’re adults. Comparing them doesn’t seem strange at all.
But comparing TDKR to TAXI DRIVER is more interesting.
If you want to follow that line of thinking, I suggest you read Frank Miller’s script for ‘Batman: Year One’. That film (which would have been directed by Darren Aronofsky) IS ‘Taxi Driver’. Miller’s conception of Bruce Wayne is a lower-class psychotic who writes letters to his dead father, becomes obsessed with a prostitute (Selina Kyle) and beats criminals to within an inch of their lives. If you want to see the line where ‘dark’ becomes ‘too dark’, that’s it.
Frank Miller’s Batman being in line to Travis Bickle is an interesting concept. I’ve always compared Batman to Paul Kersey, Charles Bronson’s character in Death Wish. I think people forgot Batman use to carry a Colt .45
Did you just say TDKR is for kids? I almost chocked on the water I was drinking with that comment!
>Did you just say TDKR is for kids? I almost chocked…
Like all good third chapters TDKR evokes the first chapter. The start of BB is a brutish thug calling himself the Devil picking a fight with Bruce Wayne and Wayne saying something like, “You’re not the Devil. You’re practice.” Now TDKR is an extended fist-fight, a kind of three hour tough-guy competition, between the ultimate brutish thug Bane and Bruce Wayne pounding and pounding on each other.
Who else but a child would call it high art to craft a metaphor of the Devil—the Judeo-Christian opponent of God, a fallen angel of light and beauty who destroys human souls through subtle guile, seduction and brilliant lies—as a brutish thug we confront in fist-fights?
Compare it—just for a similarly physical confrontation for instance—to PROMETHEUS with Shaw and her companions desperate to understand the Engineers and then confronting what they have barely started to understand.
I said TDKR was for children who think they are adults.
Batman doesn’t NEED to be dark and gloomy, Nolan just wanted to make a set of superhero movies that were dark and gloomy and that reflected a lot more than just a guy dressing in a bat costume and fighting crime. We got the comedic Batman in the 60s, we got the “quirky dark” from the Burton versions, we got the “soft PG-13” versions from Schumaker, it was time to tell the story for a more adult audience. There’s room for the Avengers and the X-Men and the Spider-Men that range from lighter to a good middle ground, Nolan’s Batman is just something different and totally merited. That said, I’m actually really curious to see where they take the franchise next. It’s clear that they’re going to make more Batman films after making so much money with Nolan, and it’s definitely going to be different.
Very well put, NHG. I agree with you 100%. I enjoy watching Nolan’s take on Batman, but his real-world, stripped-down approach to the character takes most of the fun and sense of wonder I felt with Tim Burton’s two Batman films. I appreciate seeing a darker tone after the Batman & Robin turdfest, but Nolan’s vision feels like a well-made crime-drama stuffed inside a cape and cowl. Conversely, Avengers remained true to its comic book roots, giving ample doses of action, drama, and fun in equal measure. THAT is what I want in my silverscreen comic book heroes. I like Nolan’s Batman, but I wanted to love it like I did Burton’s.
I agree, while i think Nolan has done a very good job with the ‘Batman’ series, he seems to look down on the comic book genre for some reason. Like an elitest type of attitude saying i’m too good for any fantasy silly elements so i’ll work extra hard to ground this film in reality. Nothing wrong with that, just remember that’s the world ‘Batman’ was created from, where he comes from, no matter how you direct your film. Now i say this because i have been a ‘Batman’ fan for all these decades i’ve been around, way before any of these films ever existed, not just some johnny come lately fan when Nolan started directing these films.
@orlando-
You are either lying or uninformedt. Any real fan of Batman “for all these decades” would know that there has never been one single version of Batman, that most of the time he has been more dark than ‘fun,’ and that comic books themselves have evolved beyond their humble origins in wonderful ways. The only way you might not be a liar is if you were referring to the tv show, which has very seldom resembled the comic books, in which case you would be completely uninformed. Maybe both?
You are the only elitist here, buddy, with the obnoxious and uninformed caricature of comic books Upon which you’ve yoked your, ah, argument.
Nah my man, i grew up in the hood, so ain’t nothing elitest about me. I’m well informed, let me make this very clear to you, the dark elements of ‘Bats’ are very cool. If you read my comments correctly i said that Nolan has done a damn fine job with his version of the ‘Batman’ films, clearly the best versions on the big screen i have seen. I’m just saying from where i see it, Nolan does not seem to embrace the Comic Book film genre, hell he has’nt even shown up at one Comic Con or any convention to at least thank the fans for all their support and maybe shake a few hands, do you understand what i’m saying ‘B$ Detector’, which is what i’m detecting from you potna.
No snark or disrespect at all intended in the following…You probably don’t read the Batman comics. I’m a lifelong comics reader (starting at 7, on through the 70s, 80s and 90s) and I’ve read many of the seminal issues, including THE LONG HALLOWEEN, THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, KNIGHTFALL, NO MAN’S LAND, A DEATH IN THE FAMILY, THE KILLING JOKE and many of the dark tomes Nolan has drawn from. Nolan is not superimposing a style that contradicts the material, but rather enhances it. The comics have always been bleak, other than their campy/sci-fi turn in the 50s and 60s. Nolan and his team have elevated the material. The Nolan bros. & Goyer screenplays have been much more layered, nuanced and psychologically gripping than pretty much any Batman comic has ever been. Marvel has their particular “brand” of hero, whereas DC has theirs. And Nolan’s Batman is spot on. Maybe it’s not your cup of tea, but his take does not detract at all from the source material. If you like your heroes “light” then Batman is definitely not the one.
Holy load of crap, Batan. How short a memory do all the “life-long comics readers” actually have?
The period of time, generally beginning with the publishing of Batman: The Dark Knight and the Watchmen, kicked off within the entire comics industry an era affectionally known as “the grim era” — or a play on traditional comic era naming, “The Dark Age” — which culminated in the entire implosion of the comics industry around 1996 as people finally realized that beyond the initial popularity of a minority of high quality ground-breaking stories, the comics companies were literally in a race to the bottom to outdo the violence and grittiness in the stories they were telling. And DC was the one company most attached with the phenomenon, reimagining many, many of its classic characters as violent and flawed psychopathic anti-heroes. What’s interesting is their application of these themes to Batman, which they most certainly did (the clawed murderous Azrael-as-Batman), most especially with the Knightfall series which had Bane break Batman’s back and exists as the key climactic data-mined plot element for Nolan’s TDKR. No doubt the other companies like Marvel capitalized on the craze with the Punisher and Wolverine; and Image as a company was founded on the ideals, so I’m not unfairly dogpiling all of this on DC. But DC was most prolific in expanding the themes to every single also-ran superhero from its entire publishing history. In hindsight, most everyone — except that one fan of Lobo somewhere who still pines for those stories — agrees it was a bad thing for DC and the industry to go this route; there were some good sellers, and some classic stories, but it nearly destroyed the entire industry with a flood of violent and dark crap where it didn’t belong within superhero stories.
Getting back more directly to your point, most interesting that nearly all the stories you cite, and I agree they are all thematic — if not outright — source material for TDKR are NOT historic Batman stories, but rather nearly all from this time period:
The Long Halloween, 1996-1997
The Dark Knight Returns, 1986
Knightfall, 1993
No Man’s Land, 1999
Kiling Joke, 1988
A Death in the Family, 1988
It’s like Nolan has only focused on one of the worst (comic-industry-wise) 10-year periods in a 70-year old character whose ranged in everything from a simple crime-fighter to a UFO, alien-fighter with a Batmite sidekick. Sure, The Dark Knight Returns and Killing Joke are great, great things. But, there cannot be any more heartless, gimmicky “event” — symbolizing the worst of that era from which these stories are taken from — than A Death in the Family, a story that allowed comic readers to dial a 1-900 number to determine whether Batman’s fan-hated current version Robin-replacement sidekick got brutally murdered, butchered with a crowbar.
The one key thing in all of this is the reason why Nolan simply doesn’t get it:
Does everyone understand that the entire thesis of Knightfall — and the intent of its writers — was to REPUDIATE the then in-vogue style of violence in superhero comics and demonstrate that the TRADITIONAL SUPERHERO Batman was the best?
Nolan’s TDKR movie takes the darkness and violence as its theme, discards the traditional superheroic themes that makes Batman who he is, and completely misses the point that its precisely not the violence and darkness that defines the Batman. There’s a reason why no publisher wrote stories anymore like the one Nolan’s told with TDKR. It’s like he’s the only one still stuck in 1993.
Look, Nolan made a damn fine, poem to violence for violence’s sake, because in his mind he held paramount the idea that the supervillain needed to test the Batman as physically as the others tested him mentally. I get that. But, he clearly misses the essence of both the Batman as well as the very stories he data-mined to tell his version. His apologists who style themselves “life-long comics readers” should remember to keep that era of history, and the moral of Knightfall, in mind. If Nolan were such the masterful movie visionary, then one would think that instead of simply having the Batman, plot-wise, overcome the brutality of Bane but still confined within the artistic style of the dark and brutal theme, that he could have also shown the triumph of the traditional superhero over the Bane darkness thematically and artistically, as well.
But, wait, maybe I was too quick to judge. I just saw the other day that DC’s recently brought Lobo back. The original Image creators all finally made up and recently had a reunion. Marvel’s retitled X-Men, Wolverine and the X-Men.
Maybe Nolan’s on to something here. Maybe instead of moving forward, America’s finally drug itself back the place it was, culturally, where we were 20 years ago, where the worst, darkest, most violent was the coolest. Great for him to nail the zeitgeist. But, I do hope it’s something that is gotten over quicker than the last time it was considered hot.
Although the person that you were correcting mentioned primarily the stuff published from the “grim” era, you too have a very short memory. Batman has been a darker comic from the beginning. Yes, early on, his image started become a bit lighter as he became more popular and the addition of Robin to attract more children. But the silliness that people remember from the Adam West show didn’t really kick in until that Canadian kid started shooting at people and blamed comics. That’s when the hammer went down on the tone of comics.
But the silly era of Batman only lasted about 20 years. When the TV show went off the air, the comic started to revert to a darker grimmer tone. Dennis O’Neil and Neal Adams (circa late-1960s to early 1980s) run on the Batman series cemented the dark tones back into the comics. Doug Moench and Gene Colan (circa 1982 to 1986) then cemented the gritty tones of the original Batman even further in their run. During the runs of these runs, there were already such adult and dark themes as incest, suicide, mass murder, assassination, etc.
And I’ll just touch lightly on the implosion of the comic industry in the 1990s really quick. The implosion happened because the two companies were pushing too much product at the time with poor quality. The X-Tinction Agenda is probably the best place to point to in both the high demand for customers to buy series they didn’t like with the low quality of writing and art at the time (although both companies had many many examples).
Also, it was during this time that the luster for one of the darkest anti-heroes was watered down. Wolverine was the dark brooding sociopath who couldn’t keep his temper in check. However pretty early in the “grim” era, he began to be toned down to a father figure type character that turned alot of comic fans off.
yeah, nolan didnt say anything about necessity, he had a vision and he stayed true to it…batman doesnt have to be dark, and no one’s gonna force you to go see tdkr
I have to start this by saying, I was a huge fan of Batman as kid, and while I was still a kid I got to see Tim Burton’s Batman movies, and I loved them. I was a teen when they re-booted them in the mid 90’s, and did not see Batman Forever, and Batman and Robin cause I thought they just didn’t look right, and I was busy doing other things. When they re-booted Batman again in 2005, as an adult in my 20’s, I felt I had moved on from Batman and did not see either Batman Begins or The Dark Knight. Now I am 31 and thought, what the heck, I should go see the “last” one in the trilogy, so I watched all the Batman movies on Wnds and Thurs, so I would be ready on Friday to see Dark Knight Rises. I thought BM Forever was funny and pretty good, but did not like Val as Batman. BM & Robin was kind of a mess, but has good moments. Batman Begins was kind of boring with nothing really happening to keep my focus and paused it several times before I finshed it, I also did not care for Christian’s Batman performance, but I see where he was trying to go with it. The Dark Knight was good, but only because of the Joker. Even then, the movie was about an hour to long, and the movie seemed like it was edited down to get the PG-13 rating. It was like I was watching a horror film edited for TV. TDKR’s was good, but also about an hour to long. I did not think Bane was very scary, mostly because I could not understand him. Catwoman was also I think a mis-cast role. Another thing about TDKR’s is that I was not fooled by it, I figured out what the mis-direction was about the Bane and “the woman” as each scene unfolded (wait, it that a little “girl”). So overall my grades are Tim BM: A-. Joel BM: C+. Nolan: I want to give it a B, but since all three were way to long, I’m gonna say C-. Go ahead haters, tell me where I’m wrong.
Ha, so since the movies, in your opinion was to (it’s actually too) long, you give the movies a c-? Ha, that’s laughable. The movies deserve at least a B due to the excellent acting, cinematography and interesting plots.
Superhero movie or not, the tackiest thing I have seen this weekend is the Colorado flag with Batman underneath. Anyone who posts this to their Facebook —
I’m looking at YOU Adam Marshall
— half not an ounce of self-awareness or tact. Sorry, whether these tragic victims were huge Batman fans who went opening night and loved the franchise, I doubt that they want their deaths to be wrapped in some Shepard Fairey-style plot for a graphic artist to make a name for themselves. I doubt they want their death being more about Batman being sad, or just being tied in to Batman at all. It was a movie, they may be a fan, they may be a fan of the Dodgers and have season tickets and Dodger bedsheets, but they’re gruesome and senseless murder does not need to be “Shared” or “Liked” on Facebook.
Get a clue.
The Avengers sucked man, it had very little story and was such a kiddie film that I felt like I was watching power rangers. TDKR was great and was very adult themed.
Anyone that says Avengers was just as good or better than TDKR needs help imo.
One scene from TDKR that haunts me and had more horror in it than that of the whole Avengers film was the scene where those police officers get hanged from choopers in the air.
No Marvel film can top that scene
Well stated and absolutely accurate, IMO.
Nah man, “The Avengers” did’nt suck, it was EPIC. Everyone has thier opinion, i saw TDKR friday night and thought it was good but not great. I’m someone who thought “The Avengers” was superior to TDKR, and trust me on this homeboy, i don’t need no help, haha.
RAIDERS and STAR WARS didn’t have that kind of darkness either. Different movies, different tones, different intentions – all quality pieces of work. Your comparison is baseless.
Exactly, so what some people are saying is that if a film is not dark, dense and grounded in reality it’s not a great film, people need to bounce up out of here with those rediculous comments. If that we’re truly the case than like you said, you’re saying films like RAIDERS, STAR WARS or for that matter ET, BACK TO THE FUTURE, LORD OF THE RINGS, SPIDER-MAN 2, JAWS, CLOSE ENCOUNTERS, ALIEN(S) etc are’nt great either.
The Avengers is not that good of the film. The Dark Knight Rises is far better. Difference is that Nolan knows how to write and direct movies while Whedon depends on his ineffective jokes to produce a response.
Based Joss Whedon’s poor The Cabin in the Woods screenplay, his The Avengers movie essentially performed good just because of the super hero element rather than his directing and writing abilities. Consolidating the top Marvel super heroes is a giveaway to generate high movie box office results. The story conveys very little in the end.
Many times in The Avengers, the movie seemed lost. It had to make something happen to advance the plot. Agent Phil Coulson’s scene is a poor motivational factor.
I don’t know why you people (yes you people) have the delusion that a higher box office means a better movie. It is a very American way of looking at it.
I mean can’t we just agree that both movies are going to do extremely well financially, both are well directed with scripts perfectly suited for their source material and audiences seem happy with both?
Are we going to start debate on what is better? Apples or Oranges?
Batman is about a boy who has his parents murdered in front of him and how he rises from that tragedy. Spiderman loses his parents and his uncle… it is supposed to be dark. Please look at source material.
Avengers is really an ensemble action comedy with a Norse God, a super soldier from World War 2, an alcoholic ego in a tin rocket suit, and a guy who turns green when he is angry. They hired Joss Whedon for a reason.
These may superhero movies but that are completely different genres . Also last time Batman was similar to Avengers, it was called Batman & Robin.
It is obvious Avengers will bring in a higher gross long run regardless of this tragedy. Avengers a four-quadrant movie with four-quad appeal. Batman has a lot of fans but I did not see the place full of ten year olds at my screening of Dark Knight Rises.
Everyone has a right to their opinion and everyone has individual taste, but what I like about Nolan’s Batman films is that like the great Science Fiction writers, he uses the genre to examine and comment on social, political and personal issues. “Planet Of The Apes” (1968) examined racial prejudice for example, and Ray Bradbury’s “Martian Chronicles” was rife with parallels to the plight of Native Americans after the European settlers came in and other Colonial take-overs in history. But hey – if you like your Superhero Movies to be just fun escapism, I can’t argue with that. My all time fav is “Superman The Movie”.
I don’t think Dark Knight has a shot at passing Avengers. It’s going to be a monster, no doubt about that, but Avengers is a superhero movie for kids while Dark Knight is a superhero movie for adults. Kids don’t embrace the dark gritty world of Nolan’s Batman and want to see it over and over on the scale they do the bright, shiny, happy world of Marvel’s movies.
I would disagree that it was just kids that went to see the Avengers multiple times. I’m 26 and I saw it 3 times at the cinema. My girlfriend went twice as did several of my friends. I do agree that the reason so many people went see the Avengers multiple times was that it was such a fun and enjoyable film. Like you say I’m not sure that TDKR will have the same effect.
I agree, “The Avengers” will be the year’s biggest hit and i think TDKR will be the year’s second biggest hit. TDKR will be a huge hit without a doubt. The last time i can recall comic book films being the two biggest hits of the year was 2008 with TDK & “Iron Man”. I belive TASM will up in the top 5 or 6 biggest money makers of 2012 as well.
There is a chance that TDKR only gets to the very high $300 millions and has a multiple below 2.5. Hunger Games had a comparable opening and finished around $400 million, and might finish with a higher domestic gross. Hard to say how movie-going patterns might change in the short term from the Colorado incident. Also, The Hobbit comes out in December, and if it’s a quality film I would expect it to have a strong $100+ opening and a high multiple (~4-4.5)from strong holiday weekly grosses (similar to Avatar). And assuming half the people see it in 3-D, you can add another 15-20% to a normal gross. I wouldn’t be surprised if TDKR ends up ranked fourth among 2012 openers.
Christopher Nolan is a genius. I respect his talent and had no intention of comparing the Dark Knight to the glossy (no offense – cause I love them) Avengers.
Rest easy Mr. Nolan. You’re stories and your fight for film, will save Hollywood in the years to come.
Thank you.
My local AMC theater has sold out of 13 midnight showings(non IMAX) and two Dark Knight Marathon’s(one IMAX and one non IMAX). I frankly would not at all be surprised if The Dark Knight Rises made north of 220 million dollars this weekend.
Good call, Dave.
I’m with Dave.
The Avengers was great. No doubt. Seeing news footage of Grandmothers saying how much they loved it made me go see and love it.
However, this sequel has been this highly anticipated since Batman Begins. And MORE SO after The Dark Knight. People that love gritty crime drama, like my dad, will see this and will never go to see the Avengers…
So yeah… over $200
I think just cause it’s longer and won’t get as many plays means it won’t pass Averngers.
Avengers was a 3D film with that added surcharge, it’s ridiculous to compare or to even say that this movie needs to beat it to be good. It doesn’t matter how big you open, it matters what you end up in the end — and this is sure to be one of the biggest films of all time.
Agree.
This is comparing apples to oranges.
1) The demographics are different.
2) The Avengers did huge 3D and Imax numbers which TDKR will not have.
So , at the end of the day, these comparisons are not on a level playing field, but it doesn’t matter as they are both HUGE box office winners.
FOLLOW UP COMMENT:
Just returned from an Imax screening. Obviously, TDKR is already huge and may break records.
Sorry to say that none of us were overwhelmed. The film has lots of good stuff, but it is long, meandering, repetitive and just not very special. No matter what people say…there are no surprises. Everything is telegraphed.
I had certainly hoped for more…not in volume…but in quality.
Nevertheless…here comes the money.
I saw TDKR this morning. What’s most surprising is that people here at a movie site seem to be completely pretending they’ve never seen other movies. Er, umm, yeah, the James Bond movie THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH was pretty good, I really liked Sophie Marceau as Elektra. And, uh, yeah, remember how funny it was in the AUSTIN POWERS films when Dr. Evil’s son ridiculed and mocked his father for engaging in the dumbest most ludicrous clichéd error imaginable by not killing Austin Powers when the hero was defeated and helpless? Really. I mean, really?
look can we just say either we like the movie or we didn’t,I saw this movie tkd yesterday and left the showing feeling like I had seen the best movie of the year, or at least until the next ironman. I go to movies to enjoy them not to analize their place in history. I’m a action movie buff especially the marvel & batman series. Keep em coming and i’ll keep watching not to psycoanalize but, to enjoy. GREAT MOVIE!
You’re right, different films different scenarios like 3D surcharges as you mentioned, different running times, opening different months, the beggining of one series, the ending of another, ‘bright’,’fun’and’exhillerating’, ‘dark’,’dense’ and’compelling’, and so on. TDKR will open huge, at least 165M and possibly as high as 185M in my opinion. TDKR could very well end up being one of the top 5 biggest grossing films of all time when it’s said and done.
If you had to make me an executive producer on one of the two films, I’m still going to be happy at the end of the day.
You’re right about that, i would’nt mind being the executive producer of either film beause i know both are going to be hugely successful.
One other, admittedly tiny, factor working against TDKR is that many adults don’t have that gotta-see-it-right-away mindset that kids do, and will likely wait a while until the crowds die down. I’m not even gonna start thinking about going until mid-August.
People tend to forget how big a difference the weather can make. The Northeast endured a lot of rain on TDK’s opening weekend, but this weekend, we’re scheduled for clear skies.
I live in a cowtown (Albuquerque) and the local Century Rio 24 is offering it up on all 24 screens with start times between 12:01 and 12:40. No IMAX there or anywhere in this hole, just a knockoff XD screen. As of tonight, 16 of the 24 are sold out. I’ll be at the 12:06 show, theatre 11. Just look for the guy with the missing lower right leg.
Oh, and I am a 40-year old guy with 3 kids. Why do I have to choose between The Dark Knight and The Avengers? Cant I love them both?
I know plenty of 30+ adults who will be joining the scrum of people heading out to see TDKR. Singletons and parents alike. Since this trilogy began 7 years ago, the audience has grown with it. (By the way, I’m totally picturing you as a character on BREAKING BAD. Sorry, I am drunk on pop culture.)
Thanks Johnny! You know they film Breaking Bad around Albuquerque and even filmed a scene down the street from my house. And I have yet to see one episode of it. Go figure.
I am excited for tonight! My wife wants to see it but wants to go when there is like 10 people in the theater in September. She doesn’t understand that to me, being with the people that are really into seeing it as soon as they can. One other thing, in 2008 my wife decided after a month she wanted to see The Dark Knight. I will never forget her saying to me when Mr. Fox appeared on the screen, “Morgan Freeman is in this?” And she also said, “Is that Gary Oldman?” She was stunned that so many great actors would be in the movie. It goes to show that you put great actors in great roles (Caine, Freeman, Oldman, Ledger, and Eckhart) that play to their strengths, you get a movie like The Dark Knight. I hope Tom Hardy pulls off Bane.
You have to ask, “Why didn’t Amazing Spider-Man get this kind of buzz?” The answer is the picture itself failed to attract the fans and more discerning moviegoers. The people who did see ASM are the last to clue in to whether a picture is good or not, and they bought their tickets based on their past familiarity with the Raimi movies. But now even that audience knows that Spider-Man is no longer a premier franchise. Moving forward with a sequel would be riskier than it might appear at first blush, Sony. Do the smart thing, and sell the rights to the character back to Marvel Studios.
As for The Dark Knight Rises – I’ll be there watching one of the very first showings. And probably watching it several more times next week. What Nolan has accomplished here is truly amazing.
Stop making generalizations. A lot of people disliked all of Raimi’s movies. And TASM was better than Spiderman 1 and 3.
Yes, so many people disliked Raimi’s movies, all 3 of the original Spider-Man films outgrossed ASM in each of their opening weekends. And they didn’t have 3D prices to boost their numbers, either.
Because equating Box Office Gross with Quality is as smart as believing your opinion is absolute fact.
Come now. The question here is whether Sony should sell the rights to Spider-Man back to Marvel Studios. The facts, in terms of box office numbers, speak for themselves. Sony KNOWS they left money on the table with this reboot, in a summer where The Avengers and Dark Knight Rises are breaking box office records.
Sony should sell the rights to Spidey back to Marvel, now. Get out while the getting’s good.
Ia scares me that people think avengers was a good/great movie. It was so cheesy. Iron man was the only good character portrayed. Scarlett’s johanssen…lol? I won’t watch amazing spider garbage when it’s free on HBO.
Nolan and his team are the best. End of story. Hopefully they do Mr. Hughes next!
Go lay down Nolanite. The Avengers was at the very least a good movie. Theres a reason why The Avengers is the 3rd biggest money maker of all time. Great word of mouth and repeat business based on a fun and entertaining movie. And that scares you? LOL. Spider garbage? You admitted that you wont even watch it. You have such valid opinions. What a tool.
Haha, man envy is a bitch. Well let me scare you here by saying this, “The Avengers” was a great film period, and i’ll close that book on you dude. Cheesy is good if it’s a fine quality of cheese pal.
After viewing this movie, I truly wanted to see it again.
The action, the humanity, the perfection.
This movie could still be in theaters come October.
DARK KNIGHT RISES…300 mil. + open wkd domestic…maybe 300 + overseas. Know I’m on the limb…but what Nolan has done is beyond amazing. Large story strung out over 3 chapters….each stands on their own too. Perfect blend of the what if? The reality of a dark and crazy world. Icon IMAGES link to our sub conscious in a dark cave called a theatre.
DARK KNIGHT RISES…the stuff of…dreams. Nightmares. More fans globally than naysayers. And we’re more of a global world than ever before. Let’s take it all the way.
It couldn’t do 300 million this weekend even it it sold out every venue……it would need at least 1200 more screens.
Predicting 300 million for TDKR opening weekend, and saying you might be going out on a limb saying that. No that’s not going out on a limb, that’s going on a comibined coke and heroin binge and then making that statement, that’s how rediculous you sounded man. 300 million it’s opening weekend, come on now,however i have to give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you we’re just joking, at least i hope so haha.
This time I let a family member reserve our tickets – and I just checked and realize she picked an AMC IMAX Digital theater. I’m guessing that’s the “fake IMAX” I’ve read about. I’ve always exclusively visited original IMAX 1570 theaters (Avengers 3D, Thor 3D, etc…). I’m feeling disappointed that we might not enjoy the best viewing experience. I wish IMAX hadn’t muddied up their brand by providing both premium and sub-par theater systems with the exact same name.
Oh, and I think Avengers will hold its #3 position. Just sayin’
It’s not subpar. It’s still a larger than normal screen. And it’s still an IMAX screen. It’s way better than the other stuff theaters currently have. Cinema De Lux in White Plains NY has one of these screens and it’s still really big and the presentation is still very good.
No I do not work for IMAX.
Uhh… It’s totally subpar. Lie-MAX is the biggest ripoff. Even moreso than 3D.
It’s not the “biggest rip off” because the prices for an IMAX screen that isn’t the HUGE IMAX screen is lower. The projection quality and sound are also better than an average screen.
I live in New York and on monday I visited 2 local theaters to see if I could purchase midnight tickets in advance. Unfortunately, this whole weekend is SOLD OUT. Yes the whole weekend. This has never happened to me before. While I’m not a major fanboy, I did love The Dark Knight and am quite excited to see the finale. Also Nolan is one of the finest fimmakers we have today. I don’t think it will do as well as Avengers but it will certainly be slaying the box office.
Which theater is that? I have a hard time believing every screening is sold out, even if it’s only playing on one screen.
It’s amazing how no one mentions that the Avengers is 6 superheroes rolled into one, meaning 6 fanbases joining forces to watch this movie, whereareas Dark Knight is based on one superhero. What The Dark Knight franchise has achieved, no other superhero movies have achieved. That includes all individual superhero movies including Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, and Marvel’s “most popular” character, Spiderman. A more appropriate comparison would be Justice League in the future. Anyways, to me, Batman (Dark Knight) is the highest grossing comic book superheroe. He alone grossed a billion dollars worldwide and that says a lot
I would venture that the VINN diagram of those six Marvel fandoms would appear as six concentric circles – iow, 99% overlap between Hulk fans, Iron Man fans and Thor fans.
Excellent post.
Hold on there Einstein. The Avengers and the 6 heroes have just been rolled out within the past few years. Cap and Thor just last year. Batman has been a Hollywood staple for quite a few years now. We can go back a lot further even past the West/Ward campy series. The movies go back over 2 decades for God’s sake. Batman has always been popular. Burton’s movie in ’89 got the ball rolling. Returns and Forever did fantastic until Schumacher botched it with Batamn and Robin. Nolan re-invents and starts the ball rolling again. And lets not forget the awesome rogues gallery of villians involved as well. More to the movies than just Batman.
Batman stands alone whereas avengers stand along with 5 superheros, i love iron man, hulk but the only scene i loved from avenger is the fall from the top of the building and becomes ironman on the way down, hulk was the worst character i had seen from previous 2 movies, i just saw a gorilla in avengers not hulk and the guy who portrayed hulk was joke of the decade i loved the guy from 1st hulk but when it comes to batman u have say u will love every scene and every character of the film no one will ever forget the joke and his punch line ‘why so serious’ u have say that Nolan brings perfection and superb script to his movies one of the best movies, avengers was predictable storyline but Nolan’s Batman has never been predictable will watch it till its in theatres
This could be the worst comment I’ve ever read.
The film will make 180-190 mil in the opening weekend simply because it doesnt get the 3-D boost. The finale is going to be epic according to reviews, therefore people who were borderline will end up seeing it. People will want to see what happens to their widely favorite hero. Fanboys will see it over 3 times. The film will make over 100 mil its second weekend and will continue to slay the box office for another 3 or 4 weeks totaling over 700 million in North America by the time its pulled out of theatres. The Dark Knight didnt play in alot of foreign theatres because no on expected it to be that big. With the Hype of this movie, it will earn over a billion outside of North America and may even have a chance to crack 2 billion worldwide.
Man stop fantasizing, 2 billion worldwide, what are you high. TDKR gets to 1 billion worldwide maybe, and that’s it’s ceiling. Hype does’nt make money, performance does. TDKR is looking like a smash obviously, but control those rediculous predictions. It now looks like it’s headed for a 170 million weekend which is still a great amount.
‘Heavy Sigh’
Opening Weekends are so overrated.
Haha, i hear you, sometimes they can be my friend. I look at “HP8” taking in over 169M it’s opening weekend and only making it to 381M domestic, that still has me a little baffled. It was the final film in the franchise, and the best revied one as well, that film should have cruised over 400M domestic with ease. Than you look at “The Avengers” taking in over 207M it’s opening weekend, it’s now over 616M domestic and still counting. My point being a big box office opening is always great, but it does’nt carry as much weight if the film lacks staying power and burns out at the box office fast.
If WB reboots Batman down the line, I think they should just take a cue from the video games. No origin story. Just make a straight-forward Batman movie that features the self assured Batman we all know.
Nolan did the conflicted, tortured Batman and is finishing his story. He did a good job and completely erased Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. But the only way to avoid any comparison to his monster of a trilogy is to just make a Batman film that is action packed, serious in tone and answers the critics who say that Nolan’s movies aren’t Batman movies. The Batman in the comics and video games always has a plan and a back up plan and is bad ass. Just consider the Nolan movies the films where he worked through his demons in order to become the Batman from the comics.
Aside from that, I got my IMAX tickets 2 weeks ago and the 6:30 screening was nearly sold out. This movie has a huge chance of topping 200 million over 3 days.
Spider-Man should have gone with the hero’s existence as a brute, assumed fact. I’m assuming the next Superman will do the same.
>the hero’s existence as a brute, assumed fact. I’m assuming the next Superman will do the same
You mean Zack Snyder’s MAN OF STEEL? FYI, there was a trailer for it in front of TDKR here. It looks like an origin story, a coming-of-age story, and it looks like Superman leaves a contrail for some reason when he flies.
Yesterday I bought Batman Begins and The Dark Knight on Blu-Ray for a combined $25 at Target….watched Batman Begins last night (Awesome in HD), will watch Dark Knight tonight and see Rises Saturday on IMAX. That’s my homage to a brilliant Filmmaker.
I know this will be a great, money maker popcorn movie…
I bought my ticket on Monday for a local miniplex (don’t like messing around with AMC and their crowds opening weekend), and come to find out they still have tickets available. Hope they still have some tonight after I get off work so that my cousin and her friend can get tickets.
No. “The Avengers” was all about the right timing – release date. Batman is familiar with the same old cast. Yes Nolan makes it dark and great cinematically it will not be enough this time around. Of course it was not flop AT ALL. Let’s just say Nolan’s trilogy is over and the next director will get his turn to churn cinema gold for the studios and by then China will be wide open so any director can make a mark.
Well, The Avengers was *not* a movie just for kids. Please. No “kids” movie pulls in that kind of dough. It was a movie aimed at Baby Boomers who grew up with the Avengers, as well as kids (and Gen Xers and, well, most other people, except probably the Boomers’ parents).
And hard as it is for Nolanites to accepts, his Bat-films have their share of flaws (and The Avengers did too, btw- I’m not picking on Nolan per se). TDK had enormous plot issues.
One other thing- this whole idea of the “realism” of the Nolan films is way overblown. Realism to an extent, yes. Realistic, hardly.
Avengers was selling 3D tickets which cost more than 2D tickets. Also Avengers was HEAVILY promoted on Disney channels and other kiddie networks. How do I know? Because I have a younger sister who doesn’t even like superheroes and wanted to see the movie badly. Avengers was promoted to kids as a fun, cheesy movie that appealed to both genders. It also became a family event film.
Please tell me your joking?
What part of JJ’s comment are you taking issue with? I can confirm it was heavily hyped on lots of kid-friendly channels and sites. Every person I know with kids in grade 4+ has gone with the family.